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(24 Posts)
soph28 Thu 07-Aug-08 15:47:19

OK this is going to be long but bare with me cos I really need your help.

I BF my dc1 (ds) for 6 months- he fed easily and well, weaned well and I had no problems.

Then dd1 came along and she was also BF. She refused to take a bottle of EBM. She didn't latch on well but I persevered and she gained weight well but she started finding it difficult to feed- she would scream, arch her back, come on and off the nipple and didn't seem to be able to suck very well. She had a lot of wind and would often seem to be in pain. After 5 months I switched to bottle feeding as my supply was drying up as she was so difficult to feed. She was diagnosed with mild tongue tie but I was told this would not affect her feeding. She wasn't weaned till 8 months cos she wasn't interested in any food. After being weaned she ate well but suffered from chronic constipation and I was eventually given Movicol for her when she was 20mths which she is now on daily (she is now 2).

Now I get to the point...

DD2 is 3 months and the same thing is happening- except she had a good latch and fed really well for the first few weeks but then started to resist and would arch her back and fuss. This has got worse and worse and now I am getting really down. She feeds really well at night and the first feed in the morning but around mid morning when I try and feed her she starts arching her back and screaming. This carries on for the whole day unless I hold her in an upright position and hold her tummy tightly. She is a very sicky baby and always has been. I have tried feeding her in every position but it's the same, now my supply is decreasing and it's even harder for her to feed. I am trying to express to keep my supply up but I am now stressed and exhausted and have a 2 and 3 yo to look after as well.

dd2 has just cried herself to sleep after 3 hours of crying/squealing in pain. Her last feed was at 12.30pm and it was 4oz of EBM.

I have tried to contact my health visitor but one is on holiday and 1 i in a meeting (I have asked that she call me back but they are quite useless anyway). I am going to the clinic tomorrow.

From your collective experience- am I looking at a BF problem, colic, reflux, constipation, something else...?

I am really stressed and fed up, please help.

soph28 Thu 07-Aug-08 15:57:06


EffiePerine Thu 07-Aug-08 15:59:05

I think you should ring a breastfeeding counsellor. Helpline numbers here:

LaTrucha Thu 07-Aug-08 15:59:27

bumping for you

good luck

soph28 Thu 07-Aug-08 16:08:53

Thanks- she has just woken up after all of 20 minutes and is screaming again. Am going to try and feed her and then ring that number.

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe Thu 07-Aug-08 16:10:38

No advice as not qualified but try and ring someone and get them round to watch you feed. Good luck.

BlueDragonfly Thu 07-Aug-08 16:12:34

Is there any advice on Kellymom? have you looked there?

Is there someone else who can offer her ebm from a bottle?(so she isn't with you smelling the milk iyswim) Or would you offer her formula as a one off?

I haven;t got any practical advice sorry

VictorianSqualor Thu 07-Aug-08 16:16:15

Soph, I don't know anything about reflux etc but just wanted to add my support,definitely call the breastfeeding lines.

We're on postnatal if you want to come and have a moan to us about

VictorianSqualor Thu 07-Aug-08 16:18:05

If you look it sounds like reflux to me.

soph28 Thu 07-Aug-08 16:50:04

Thanks VS- had a thread yesterday and someone linked me to Kellymom but it's not very clear cut with Robyn so I'm struggling to wrk out what the problem is.

BlueDragonfly- thanks but she takes a bottle no problem- she usually has one bottle of EBM in the evening and yesterday I caved and gave her a bottle of formula (she drank 7oz). It's just not a proper solution- I can't express for every feed and she's still crying and uncomfortable between feeds.

pudding25 Thu 07-Aug-08 23:00:27

My best friend and I both have 12 wk old babies. Her DS has bad reflux and it what you are experiencing sounds similar to what he is doing. Maybe your DD! also had reflux and was never diagnosed?
Obviously I am no dr but I think you should get yourself down to the nearest paediatrician and get DD2 checked out. If it is reflux, there is all sorts of medicine available.

thisisyesterday Thu 07-Aug-08 23:05:17

soph, ds2 was similar and he has a dairy allergy. stopped completely when I cut out dairy from my diet.

but agree it could equally be reflux.

if I were you I would cut out all dairy, and just see (it won't harm either of you if it turns out not to be the problem), you need to cut it out for 2-3 weeks though to make sure it's completely gone.

but also make an emergency appt to see your GP, and push for a referral to someone about reflux.

this IS an emergency because your baby cannot feed properly

soph28 Sat 09-Aug-08 20:19:50

Thanks pudding and thisisyesterday

I had basically narrowed it down to those two things myself. I had an appointment with HV yesterday and she is pushing for the dairy sensitivity. She said she didn't want to prescribe anything for reflux until I had cut out dairy to see if things improved.

How is reflux avtually diagnosed?

And Yesterday, did you cut out ALL dairy (inc chocolate grin, and eggs)? And how long for? Did you start re introducing dairy and is your DS still allergic?

thisisyesterday Sat 09-Aug-08 20:26:20

yes, had to cut it all out, which, as I am vegetarian was hard. renders me basically vegan (aside from honey)

well, egg isn't technically dairy, although, somehow they do seem to go together don't they?
I had already cut that out from my diet because he reacted really violently to it, before we realised that dairy may be a problem too.

so, only dark choc from now on, which I am getting used to lol (nbot all of it is dairy free though, so need to check)

I noticed a change in ds within a few days of cutting it out, although it can take 2-3 weeks for it to completely leave both your systems, so it's worth cutting it out for at least a month IMO to really tell if it is working.

after a month or so, I tested him by having a reasonable amount of milk one day. be was grumpy and a bit sicky that evening, and AWFUL the next day.
have had several attempts at re-introducing it since, but it still affects him (he is 9.5 months now)
I have reached a point where I can have a little bit now and then though, ie, a splash of milk in a coffee when we're out, or the odd bit of toast with real butter instead of marg. am hoping he'll grow out of it completely though.

mylittlemonsters Sat 09-Aug-08 20:32:22

You are describing my daughter who had reflux. Signs are happy when sat up not when lying down, difficult to wind, wants to feed regularly but little as starts to cry as soon as you start, arching back, vommitting after feeds (not always a symptom as there is such a thing as a silent refluxer).

You can get childrens gaviscon over the counter from your pharmacist but most would recommend that you see your GP.

Warning : GPs need you to be persistent on this (most) as they will assume you are exeggerating.

soph28 Sat 09-Aug-08 21:53:38

it is a difficult one cos both problems seem to present in much the same way. I am going to cut out dairy and see what happens and if no difference I will try gaviscon.

I don't really drink tea and coffee but I LOVE milk and chocolate so it's going to be really hard!!!

mylittlemonsters- she has all those signs except she is fine lying down. She settles well in her cot and sleeps well all night (tho she is sick a lot and gets sheets and sleepimg back all wet)

I already know you have to be persistent- the general reaction to saying that your baby is unhappy and cries a lot is 'Yes that's what babies do' - not very helpful when you know there is something up with your LO!

Mummyfor3 Sat 09-Aug-08 21:53:39

Sounds like reflux to me, too. Genuine dairy sensitivity is rare and what cow protein mum ingests with her diet is well digested and broken down before it appears in BM. I was also under the impression what mum eats/drinks is unlikely to affect the baby as long as she does not radically alter her diet? (ie asian baby will not mind BFing mum eating hot curries).
Infant Gaviscon is basically a thickener to help baby not to be sick as much. As it sounds like your DC is in pain it might be worthwhile to consider an antacid such as Ranitidine. There are also stronger medications that in a young baby would probably only be used if reflux was confirmed, usually by Barium swallow (baby gets bottle feed of barium and then has several XRs to see barium going down gullet into stomach and then back up again - which is what reflux is).

Sorry, this is a long answer, I'll try and shut up soon smile.

My DS2 had dreadful reflux, eventually had Barium swallow which confirmed it. However with weaning him on solids it all settled very quickly although he still had lots of milk feeds of course. To this day (he is 4 yrs now) he vomits at the drop of a hat and we have to remember to not squeeze his middle too tightly after a meal - mainly a problem in play fights/wrestling with his brother grin!! Messy...

Hope you will find good advice and help. I would definitely go and see Gp and ask for referral to paediatrics. I agree also with other posters to get some RL BF support and ideally somebody who can watch you feed to observe latch etc.

Good luck!

soph28 Sun 10-Aug-08 15:07:25

Hi Mummyof3, I already had my HV watch me BF. she said positioning and latch were fine. She was reluctant to prescribe antacid for her. She consulted her BF textbook which said that a dairy sensitivity was the most common food sensitivity and that it produced colicky type symptoms in babies.

I have only been dairy free for 2 days and she is already much better. Could be coinicidence so I'll peresevere for another week or so and if the improvement continues then I guess that's that.

TBH I would rather it was reflux as I don't want to give up dairy!

pudding25 Sun 10-Aug-08 19:25:03

My best friend's son (who I mentioned before) had the barium meal. He also had a tube up his nose overnight attached to a little monitor which measured the acidity levels.
She has been told that the best way to really test for definite and to find out the cause is the have a camera down his throat (ca never remember what you call that) if the drugs don't work.

ib Sun 10-Aug-08 19:32:04

It sounds like reflux, but that really frequently goes hand in hand with dairy intolerance.

Ds had both. Getting rid of dairy in my diet helped, but it was not until he was on drugs that he started to gain weight. The change was unbelievable, truly miraculous, and 6 months later I was able to go back onto dairy too (he was off the drugs by then).

BigBadMousey Sun 10-Aug-08 20:02:37

Genuine question (I'm in the same position as the OP) - if this is a dairy intolerance why has it taken so long for these symptoms to occur? I would have expected the baby to suffer the symptoms quite soon after birth - not a few weeks later.

ib Sun 10-Aug-08 20:11:49

With ds, he had problems feeding from birth. He was a sleepy baby early on. According to the paediatric gastro, this is because when tiny babies are in a lot of pain they shut down to conserve energy.

In our case, things took a drastic turn for the worse when we followed medical advice and topped up with formula...

soph28 Sun 10-Aug-08 21:01:11

Hi BigBadMousey, hope this thread helps you as well too.
My dd was sicky from birth and the other symptoms have just gradually got worse- I assume it's because it kind of accummulates in their system. Also I don't think it's a dairy intolerance or the effect would be more severe- just a sensitivity.

DD was loads better today- I will keep you informed of her progress. She has not had any trouble gaining weight so at least that's not an issue!

Mummyfor3 Sun 10-Aug-08 21:30:56

The test with camera down gullet is called endoscopy (or: upper gastrointestinal endoscopy, to give it its full name) or gastroscopy. Probably not first test to consider for small baby...hmm.
Good luck with dairy avoidance - like you, I would hate to have give up milk chocolategrin.

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