Anyone about now? need feeding help again...

[Monkeybird]

Hi

Posted last night about my poorly baby... Not much better tonight but I'm really struggling with the feeding. I've been absolutely sure he needed milk all evening but he's been refusing to suck. He's been crying on and off for hours - last feed was at 6pm and then from 9pm till now (11.15) he's been screaming but arching away and screaming more everytime I offer the breast.

Since he's got this horrible virus, I really didn't want him to go longer than 5 hours - which I know was far too much anyway but it wasn't for want of trying...

In desperation, me and the DH just sat here and I expressed while tipping it first into a cup, which he had a bit of, and then, in the end, into his very first bottle which he glugged (so I knew my instincts were right)... I think he had about 120mls in total

Since the feed he is much brighter, no more whingeing, sleepiness and screaming - he's lying next to me now chatting and wriggling...

Leaving aside all the massive emotional stuff this throws up (rejection! bottles! me me me...) I'm now worrying about what it is that's stopping him suckling me - any ideas - is he just too tired and poorly?

And am I now doomed to do this through the night, till he's better, forever...?

Never underestimate the dramaqueen potential of the Monkeybird, but honest, I'm really fed up.

On a more pragmatic note, I also now have a half filled bottle of EBM that he has already drunk half of. Do I have to chuck this given he's mixed saliva, snot etc in there, or is it good for a while? How long? At room temp? or should I fridge it?

And the other little bits of EBM in my pots that I also have saved here (I know, but I do have loads of milk and he is a massive boy...) - there's one he cup-fed from, AKA mixed with saliva/snot combo, and a tiny bit... Can I just keep those next to the bed and give them later.

Sorry to be so detailed but in a state...

[callmeoverchristmas]

OK, don't panic. He is obviously too tired and poorly to BF and he has now had a good feed.

Don't mix the snotty stuff, you have loads more I know it feels terrible to throw it away but you don't want him any sicker.

Have a break while he is sleeping then express some more. You may find now he has some food in him he will regain some strength and BF later anyway. Get DP to do the washing and sterilising of the pump now so it is ready while you have some water and food and put you feet up.

Remind me how old is he? DD had her first bottle of EBM at 10 days in similar circs and we never had a problem with nipple confusion etc, she still BFs at 15m.

Will pop back in a bit to see if you are OK.

[callmeovercautious]

Have just realised I was still wearing my Christmas name! This is the usual me now.

[Twinklemegan]

Hi Monkeybird. Babies find bottles much easier than a breast. So if your poor DS is feeling really rough he probably can't be bothered to work hard enough to get milk from you. Don't worry - he's not rejecting you. And I'd dump the saved EBM if I were you.

[kiskidee]

he may not be screaming etc at the next feed but if he does, run a nice warm bath, both of you climb in and see if that reminds him of how nice bf is.

some babies will also take a bottle simply because it is different not because it isn't you.

you don't need to keep the left over ebm from the sounds of things but fwiw, ebm keeps much longer than formula at room temp even after baby's saliva etc has been mixed in.

[Monkeybird]

Thanks gals, sane and calm as usual in the face of mounting panic...

OK, so he chatted for a bit, then got fussy and screamy again. Tried to settle him but no joy. Gave him some more of the bottle from earlier (only an hour or so since he started it/I expressed it so sure it will be fine? )

And now, finally, after that, he has conked out and is sleeping peacefully next to me.

Will hope he forgets his breast hatred while sleeping and try again when he wakes. If anyone is still about though - dya think I should try and wake him or wait till he wants to feed? I'm just dead conscious of the need for fluids but I reckon it's my constant trying to feed him that's pissed him off...

Fantastic but run-ragged DH is off cleaning and preparing the pump/bottle bits now just in case we need to go through that palaver again. Lets hope not...

Thanks for your immediate replies, it's brilliant to know someone's out there. It's been such a shit few days since Xmas... My MIL who has terminal cancer was just readmitted to the hospital then hospice on Xmas Day, 4 out of 5 of the family are ill, and pretty much have been for the last month including me, we're supposed to be decorating the house that we're moving to over Xmas and all that has been wiped by permanent illness, and yesterday was spent in hospital with this little bugger listening to things like meningitis and lumbar puncture and IV fluids and I've been so worried about the little guy I haven't slept properly for two nights. Am bowing out exhausted now but really, truly, thanks...

[Twinklemegan]

Hmm, I think I'd leave him to sleep for a while. It sounds like he took a good amount of fluid not so long ago. Try to trust your instincts - if you think he's sleeping for a bit too long then maybe wake him and try again. But you're right, he might just be really p*ssed off at being woken up!

[Twinklemegan]

I posted before I'd finished. Also meant to say I'm sorry you're having such a tough time and hope things improve for you soon.

[Aitch]

poor old monkeybird, sounds like you've had a cruddy time. i'm no bfing expert bt afaia twinkle's right, babies do find it easier with bottles, it doesn't mean he's rejecting you. also i couldn't agree more about the bath, make it lovely and steamy (run the shower, everything) and let him lie forward on your tummy as it'll help him clear his nose. hopefully he'll do a bit of rooting and you'll be off.
you have my sympathy though, it is depressing when they leap on the bottle, isn't it? try to remember it doesn't mean anything, you'll be back on track in no time, if that's what you want.

[Monkeybird]

Hi

Things improved slightly last night but there's still a certain amount of boob suspicion going on... He woke about 2 (right on schedule!) but was too cross to feed so I didn't force it. He fell asleep and woke again obviously hungry but very tired at about 4am. He arched away again but with a bit of trickery involving his dummy and letting him mostly fall back to sleep, combined with a bit of, er, nipple twiddling to try and speed up the let down (oh, I'm a master BF agent, me) he finally fed from me. We went through the whole rigmarole again at 7 so it's not easy but at least I'm getting him to BF. If he carries on with this and is still poorly, I might try using the pump first to stimulate the letdown to see if that helps.

The swollen fontanelle seems to have gone down somewhat now so that's good news but he's still feeble and full of snot everywhere. Mum is coming today to take away eldest child who doesn't apparently have the plague (but who, helpfully, did manage to be sick on the bathroom floor on Boxing Day night, in his sleep, and then climb back into bed oblivious without telling anyone. WTF? Sleep-vomiting? Its usually his dad who does that kind of stuff...) Anyhow, that means the rest of us can have a bit more rest with one less child out of 3 to worry about.

Going to sleep now.... aaaahhhhhhhh!

[tiktok]

Some good info here, but can I just redress the 'babies find bottles easier than breasts' MYTH!!! It is wrong to generalise like this - some babies with bunged up snotty noses might find bottles easier on some occaasions, but bottle feeding is absolutely not inherently easier than breastfeeding.

Mothers are told 'oh, they have to work a lot harder on the breast and get lazy' - wrong! With breastfeeding, the mother's body can do some of the work in making milk available (with the let down reflex) whereas a bottle does not 'let down' without the baby continually working at it.

The 'harder' work in bf is with tiny prems, who can (sometimes) get 'hold of' a bottle teat more effectively than a nipple, because the bottle teat can be 'poked in' to a small, semi-open mouth, by the carer, in a way that a nipple can't be.

Monkey, I am pretty certain your baby will come back to the breast when he is feeling better and you are doing all the right things in helping him do that

[Stefka]

What a nightmare night you have had. I hope that things are better now. FWIW I always keep EBM that is left over for one more feed and then chuck it after that. I had to throw away a fair bit this morning as DS passed out before it was finished - what a waste!

Hope you are getting some good rest.

[Aitch]

ah, right enough, what with having zero let-down scooshiness(must've leaked twice in all those months) dd deffo loved her bottle. so it was personal, then, it was me she loathed? grrrr.
glad things are going better this morning, MB.

[Twinklemegan]

Oops . Sorry for perpetuating a myth Monkeybird. Like Aitch, it seems MY DS definitely found bottles easier than breast, but then we had our own particular problems. Glad things are a bit better with you now anyhow.

[beanbearer]

In case things haven't settled back to normal yet, thought I'd just add that my friend's 8 month old has just been through a patch of boob-rejection, associated with a seriously snotty viral fevery bug. This lasted about 10 days - sometimes he'd feed from her at night when basically asleep but through the day would have nothing but bottles, no matter what she tried. Big emotional upset but she kept it together, kept the faith and he's now back to feeding from her as usual. Hope it'll be quicker for you.

[Twinklemegan]

Just to clarify, that was "we" meaning me and DS. I'm not stalking you or anything Aitch.

[Aitch]

lol, but we, you and i, did have the same problems though, didn't we?

[Twinklemegan]

That we did, sadly for both of us. . I must say actually, bottle being easier than breast may be a myth, but it sure made me feel a little better about myself at the time.

[tiktok]

Babies do sometimes appear to prefer bottles - but this is almost always when bf has not been easy or effective for them for whatever reason. And then of course in comparison the bottle is easier.

There's no reason to think that sucking from a bottle is - per se - easier than sucking from a breast - it's just different.