Ok now I´m REALLY struggling to even get to 6 weeks...

[maveta]

I´ve posted before about the various problems I´ve been having with breastfeeding (cracked nipples, thrush, tongue tie, raynaud´s) but am reaching breaking point. Ds will be 6 weeks on saturday, on friday we are due to see a consultant about the tongue tie but am not sure if he will do anything about it or if we will be referred again. I wanted to at least hang on until then but my nipples are increasingly painful and one has now developed a blood blister. It gets to the point, after about 45mins, where I literally can´t take anymore and have to take him off the breast. I´m worried he´s not getting enough milk but the pain is too much. (weight gain has been fine in general, bit of a dip last week but, pending confirmation at weigh-in tomorrow, think we´re back on track)

I want to breastfeed so much, I´ve never imagined bottle feeding and I´m feeling so sad at the thought of having to give up so early. I have given him a bottle of formula here or there (now 3 in total) and I´ve felt horrible about it every time. It doesn´t seem right to give him powdered milk and as convenient as it would be to bottle feed in that anyone could feed him, I kind of LIKE being the only one that can feed him, I LIKE that special connection and the way we look at each other when he feeds which I don´t get when he takes a bottle.

I want to try and get through the next few days til the appt,the LLL counsellor I called suggested feeding off the better side (though he is never full off that side alone so am left a bit confused about how to fill him up - i can´t just leave him on there indefinitely cos even the better side is painful) and expressing off the other. If that doesn´t work, I might have to come to terms with bottle feeding. It just seems like the tongue tie is more and more of a problem, he really fights the breast, ´clicks´ on the nipple, slips off, gets frustrated etc etc and it´s worse all the time. I feel so angry that I knew he had TT at 6 days at it has taken them this long to do anything about it. The paed. gp is totally dismissive that it could be causing teething problems.

This is pretty long winded but I just needed to pour it out, if anyone has been through similar and can advise or just share, it would be great to hear.

[EllieK]

aw maveta
sorry to hear it's not getting any better, think you need to point out you are in Spain tho, it seems so different trying to get support over there

[maveta]

I´d just like to add that, in theory, I´m not particularly against formula and certainly have never judged anyone that´s formula fed their baby which is probably why it´s been even more of a surprise to me that I feel like I do. All through my pregnancy I tried to prepare myself that IF bf-ing didn´t, for whatever reason, work, I would not be a failure, it´s not a big deal etc etc and have been really surprised to find that I want to bf so much.

[maveta]

Thanks Ellie, yes, you are right of course, I always forget to say that..cheers babe x

[SpacePuppy]

I know your pain and feelings of anxiety and total failure;

I know I'll get stoned by the breastfeeding gang for this suggestion but:

I had problems breastfeeding and successfully expressed for 8.5 months. My ds had all the benefits of breast milk without the dilemma of not being able to breastfeed properly. Try to keep your milk supply up by expressing (Avent makes a good pump) until you get to your appointment, offer your breast throughout the day, if it doesn't work then offer a bottle of breast milk.

[iMum]

my ds is 8 months old now and i am still managing to bf-lots of problems tho, blocked ducts, bleeding nipples etc this book saved my life.
It might be that he is feeding for too long? as once the breast is empty then to feed on it can be very painful. Whenever ive had sore nipples I would stop feeding on that side for a day (or the side that was the most painful) let the air get to the nipple and let it heal. positioning is everything as im sure you know-try that book, it really is very very helpful.

[EllieK]

is there anyone other than the paed. GP you can see? do you have a helath visitor equiv.?

[EllieK]

and 45 mins does sound like a long time maveta, Joe only feeds for about 15 mins at a time and goes 3 hours between feeds, and as you'll see on the April thread, he's gaining fast!

[foxybrown]

No real advice, but wanted to say that when I've been just about to give up, its has come good. I've experienced many of the same things as you and it was really, really bad - but just wanted to say hang on in there if you can, at least for another few days. You've done so well to come this far.

good luck.

[LIZS]

Have you tried a nipple shield on the blistered one , it may help relieve the rpessure enough for it to heal, and different positions . Feed off the "good" side first and then the sore one (he might be less frantic by then). Could you express and feed him ebm in the interim.

[maveta]

spacepuppy - but how did you express enough for him??? how often did you express? In the morning I have been able to get about 3ozs in 20mins, about mid afternoon I can get about another 3 but at other times I can only get 1oz ish.. I can´t see how I could get a whole day´s worth of feeds for him by expressing.. not to mention the practical aspect of not really being able to be attached to the expresser ALL day long..

imum - thanks for the ref, will look into getting that book..i do try and take him off when it seems like he´s just comfort sucking but I find it hard to know when that is..

Ellie - yes it IS a long time! There is a bf-ing support thingy here but whenever I´ve tried to call the numbers given, there´s no answer! besides, the call to LLL today seemed to confirm what I thought which is - I KNOW the problems I´m having, I just don´t know how to get past them and they don´t seem to either because really it´s a case of ´get through it´ but when you can´t??? I think the TT is to blame for a lot of the pain so what can anyone say until it´s fixed??

And thanks Foxybrown, I really hope that´s the case with me too..

[ProjectIcarus]

i really think you need to get his tongue tie snipped tbh. I have read a few case studies and the women were very sore before with long feeds. Post snip far far more comfortable.

The problems depend on the extent of the tie. The gp is being dismissive because it is not as if you would let him starve. Go in guns blazing and get it snipped.

I really admire your resolve btw it is apparently v v hard feeding a baby with a tongue tie.

[LIZS]

3oz is pretty good imo !!

[maveta]

Lizs - yes will try a nipple shield actually, forgot I had one! 3ozs is good if I could get it every time but really I´ve only ever managed to get one feed expressed over the course of a whole day. That was without being particularly dedicated but I can´t see how I could get more than 2 feeds in a day, even that would be amazing! So that´s not enough to feed him..

projecticarus - the tie comes all the way to the tip of his tongue, he can´t stick his tongue out at all.. like i said, we´re seeing the consultant on friday and if he doesn´t do it I´m going to find out options for doing it privately - at the moment it´s a case of trying to even hang on THAT long. I feel so bad for my wee one, he must get so tired trying to stick his tongue out to milk my breast when he CAN´T do it.

[mears]

maveta - hopefully your consultant will be supportive of dividing the tongue-tie which would hopefully help solve the nipple problems.

45 minutes is a long time with a painful nipple - I would limit the time on that side and make sure thatthe latch is not getting worse throughout the feed without being readjusted. Feed on the better side first as well. I would suggest feeding on better side first, when finished, wind him andoffer more painful side. Limit feed to 15 minutes and if he is still hungry, return him to the first side. If you feel the sore breast has not beem empied then express. You might find it more comfortable to hand express rather than using a pump which can make the nipple sorer.

Have you got tongue-tie information that you could take with you?

[littlepicklesmum]

Maveta... I know how you feel, I'm sure lots of people out there do...The thing is EVERYONE is full of advice and you just don't know which way to turn. I looked up on internet, read books, HV got second opinions (DS lost weight for first few weeks) I luckily found a breast feeding group and my whole life focused around going there. As you are in Sapin it may not be as easy?? I can't really offer any advice, but can support you, which i think is what you need really. DO NOT punish yourself tho, looking back I put too much pressure on myself to get it 'right'
Its not easy but it can be done, skin to skin contact is very important, personally i'd forget the pump. but we are all different..

[mears]

tongue-tie info to take

[mears]

hand expressing

[weeonion]

maveta - my heart goes out to you. you have had so much to contend with - it hasnt been easy and well doen to you for keeping goign for so long. i know what you say about it being important to you to keep going - more importnat t=han you had thought when you were pregnant. i also agree that everyone has advice fr you - that doesnt make it easier. i dont wan to add to that but...... i had a load of problems but have managed it to the 6 week mark. i express milk and when it ets to o much - she gets that. i found expressing a real chore at the start - 2.5hrs in teh ospital on a pumop yeilded 20mls. i spent a night in the bath to get it started with hot flannels on my boobs with jugs of water poured over me and it helped. i also express through the night after a feed and get up again 1hr later. i cna manage a fair bit now. i also spend a while massgaing my boobs and stroking downwards.

whatever you decide honey - you have done so well and stuck with it. you have my email if there is anything i can do to help. thinking of you. xox

[dueat44]

maveta - re the expressing. i think the more you do it, the more you'll get.

when i had dd she was in nicu so i was expressing 7 times a day - by day 9 i could get 5 oz in as many minutes. but now she is on the breast, if i try to express for the odd bottle, i can only get 2 oz and it takes a long time, though my milk supply is just fine - my bosoms have just got out of the pumping habit. for ds i expressed for 3m, no trouble, but if i had taken a break i think the yield would have dwindled when i tried again iyswim.

so it would probably take a while to build up your expressing enough that you could feed him totally. maybe if the tongue snip isn't done soon it would be worth building up your expressing while feeding a mixture of bm, ebm and formula. but hopefully, the consutant will snip it there and then. i do feel for you. please try nipple shields - in the 14m of direct bf that i have managed to persuade my dc to collaborate in, i have always worn them and never had a sore nipple.

[liath]

Maveta, I really admire your determination & you have had such a rough time.

With dd I gave up BF at 6 weeks but expressed for the next 6 weeks and the more I expressed the more milk I got. I've used nipple shields as well when it got too sore to face a feed (useful at 4am when your defences are low).

You've done so well to get to this point, I hope the TT gets sorted ASAP.

[eca]

maveta honey Was thinking of you today wondering when your TT appointment was.

About the TT I agree, I think you should be quite forceful about getting it done on friday. But if they wont can you get it done privately there? Or would you have to come back to the uk. I just had a quick look and (you probably know this) but flybe fly Mallorca to Southampton, which is where there is a consultant who has done alot of research on TT's and very pro bf etc. His details are somewhere on mn, possibly my thread on tts. Looks like you could do a weekend visit for under 200 euros.

BTW what painkillers are you taking?? And are you putting Lansinoh on before you feed, esp where the blister has appeared?

I so so feel for you. I was lucky to get seen so quickly. I also found things a bit easier because I have so much milk (can express 7oz in 10mins from one side if it's full !!) It means that if I'm sore I can manage on one side for a feed (doing this in the night alot, pain is always worse at night).

To encourage you - I did feel a difference in T's latch straight away, so it should start to ease straight away, but may take a while to totally heal.

[eca]

ps. so know what you mean about wanting to bf and liking being the one who feed ds and getting that special time etc etc. I feel exactly the same and it's what is getting me through. (Still got the cracked nipple and currently on 2nd round of mastitis btw posted on your other thread that things were getting better and then it all kicked off again The things we do for our dc!!!!!!!! ) xx

[Jenkeywoo]

I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time - my friends little boy was diagnosed with tongue-tie at a week old and she was having all the same sorts of problems as you. She actually ended up having to express and feed him with a bottle until he got his tongue snipped at 3 weeks old. She also had to use nipple shields and in fact is still using them now and successfully breastfeeding him at 15 months. I think your lo's tongue tie obviously sounds really quite severe and you need to get assertive until they sort it out - my friend said it was such a simple procedure and her DS was able to breastfeed properly (after having EBM from bottle for 3 weeks) straight after - he was desperate to get on the breast proprly poor little lad.

thinking of you and hoping things get easier.

[Twinklemegan]

Maveta - sending humungous hugs your way. My DS wasn't diagnosed with tt til he was 5 months. It was too late by then - I'd gone through the agony of trying to bf exclusively, done loads of expressing, succumbed to mixed feeding and finally gave up bf altogether at 4.5 months. It is horrendous and I can't sympathise enough. I really hope the consultant can help you.

[mylittleimps]

my ds1 was competely tomgue tied and i BF him, it was bloody hard (painful)work so you have my compete sympathy but keep going, it is far better for their speech development for them to continue with BF rather than bottle (muscle development is different with BF than bottle).

i really struggled to get the tongue tie resolved because he gained weight well - they said there couldn't be an issue then! LOL .
my GPs were very supportive and i took pictures of his tongue (let him cry to get a good picture)and sent it round the hospitals as i didn't want to sit back and wait for ever - he was seen at Queen Medical Centre in Nottingham and it was snipped at 11 weeks - it was beginning to fork so i was starting to panic. but it was so so simple to resolve, very quick, no bleeding, he was awake.

how severe is the TT? i did loads of research on the internet as the first consultant (who wasn't a paed. consult.) was so so dismissive and if it's your first it don't have that much confidence to fight the powers that be. but i just took another look at him, and got a second opinion, even considered going abroad where attitudes are different. the way my ds's tt was he was going to be speech impared, was going to have teeth and tongue problems and i was going to do everything possible to sort it.

keep going you really are doing a wonderful job for your ds.

i found taking a bit more time at the beginning and training him to latch on helped ( i would make him work at latching on, didn't let him just do it first time - hope taht makes sense!)

god you have my sympathy, it brings back so many memories.