BF info for a mum to be please!

[bumperlicious]

Ok, this may sound a bit preemptive seeing as this LO is not due for another 10 weeks, but I don't have a regular midwife to ask and have no idea when my antenatal classes start, so apologies for what may seem like a anxious post (it is!) but I like to be prepared and I know I can rely on you lot to help me.

Anyway, to the point: I have quite a few breast feeding questions which I would love answers for:

1. How soon after baby is born can I try to breast feed, and conversely, how long can you leave it before the first feed (e.g. what if I have an emergency CS or something?) and before the hospital will want to give it formular?

1. I want to exclusively breast feed, but what if I have problems in the first few days, is my baby going to get enough nourishment? How long do I get to get things right, and if things aren't going right how long before you stop producing milk?

1. I would like to express occasionally, e.g. so DH can do a night feed. Any tips on expressing in general?

1. If you breast feed in the night do you still have to wind the baby? What if they fall back to sleep, do you wake them?

1. I really want to breast feed but most of what I read, especially on here, is how difficult it can be and all the problems that surround it. I know you only hear the bad things and people don't post 'well breast feeding is going really well isn't it easy' but I seem to have go into this mindset that it's going to be difficult and I won't be able to do it. Do you have any tips to alleviate my fears? What is the trick to getting the baby to latch on properly?

Ok, I'm done! Sorry for what must seem like really stoopid questions, I just need to know what I am getting into and feel a bit more prepared. Thanks in advance for any advice

[sassy]

1. straight away (easier if you have vag birth but asap after c-section)
   2)new babies are not that hungry IME. Takes a few days for them to wake up properly. You are only producing colostrum anyway to begin with (high quality, low volume milk). Don't get worried about milk production for at least 4-5 days, i reckon.
   
2. Electric - hand expressors are crap and give you RSI. Best to express early in morning.
   4)I never winded my 2, didn't need it. (Bf babies often don't).
   
3. Get someone who has done it recently to check your latch a few times. Expect it to hurt (quite a bit!) for a while but it is worth persevering. Buy some Lansinoh cream (£££ but worth it) and use it frequently as you approach your due date and after every feed once baby is here.
   
   Good luck! Use MN too, there are so many people with so much more expertise than me here.

[moondog]

Hi Bumper
Brilliant to think about it now imo.
These are a brilliant source of support and info.
Mumsnet is great too.
Have you looked in the archives as well (ie past posts on same topic)?
Post as often as you like-wealth of wisdom and info to be had.

[sassy]

Bumping cos tiktok who is a bf counsellor is about somewhere.

[Philomytha]

Hi, these aren't stupid questions, it's a very good idea to learn about breastfeeding before your baby is born since it'll be really difficult to find time afterwards.

1. Immediately. If you can, get the baby to your breast before it's washed or weighed or anything like that. I think at hospital they're used to breastfeeding after c-sections and unless you've had a general anaesthetic you should be able to hold the baby quite soon. Make sure your birth partner knows what you're planning, so that he/she can communicate your wishes to the medical people.

1. Just keep the baby on the breast as much as you can in the first week. Breastfeeding is demand-led, so the more the baby suckles, the more milk you'll make. He'll probably want to eat little and often, no longer than two hours between daytime feeds and no longer than four hours at night. Your milk probably won't come in for a few days after the birth, but this is fine because until then you make colostrum which is the most essential thing your baby will ever eat in his life and is very nutritious.

1. If you can afford to wait, don't bother faffing with expressing for the first month or so. Wait till you've got breastfeeding sussed (it does take a month or so for you and the baby to both learn how to manage) then get a pump and learn how to express.

1. You don't 'have' to wind the baby unless he seems uncomfortable. It's not an essential thing, it's more a cultural thing.

1. Go to www.kellymom.com and read all about breastfeeding there. In my experience, knowledge helps to allay anxiety. If you find out what the common problems are AND what to do about them now, then you'll have a much better chance of being able to get through them. Also, remember that most people don't post in the breastfeeding forum saying 'today breastfeeding went just fine, and it went fine yesterday too'. I've breastfed my son for 16 months, there were a few problems in the first weeks (mastitis) but we got through them and it's been extremely easy and fun ever since.

[foxcub]

Bumperlicious - I'm not an expert by any means and have had both good and bad BFing experiences. I think its good you are learning all you can before you start - you'll probably start off better than I did!

1. How soon after baby is born can I try to breast feed, and conversely, how long can you leave it before the first feed (e.g. what if I have an emergency CS or something?) and before the hospital will want to give it formular?

I'd say ASAP is best - babies latch on naturally early on. DD latched onto me immediately and I found feeding her easier than feeding my other two, where there was a delay. MWs are used to putting babies on immediately but make it clear you want this to happen or they may not do it.

1. I want to exclusively breast feed, but what if I have problems in the first few days, is my baby going to get enough nourishment? How long do I get to get things right, and if things aren't going right how long before you stop producing milk?

I think you baby will get enough milk as its demand led - just latch them on when they want to and let them suckle and your milk supply will be there for them.

1. I would like to express occasionally, e.g. so DH can do a night feed. Any tips on expressing in general?

I found an electric machine more efficient - I use the Avent Isis IQ, which mimocs your own hand pump so you can control how it pumps.

1. If you breast feed in the night do you still have to wind the baby? What if they fall back to sleep, do you wake them?

I never burp mine at night if they want to go back to sleep - just put them on their side in case they posset.

1. I really want to breast feed but most of what I read, especially on here, is how difficult it can be and all the problems that surround it. I know you only hear the bad things and people don't post 'well breast feeding is going really well isn't it easy' but I seem to have go into this mindset that it's going to be difficult and I won't be able to do it. Do you have any tips to alleviate my fears? What is the trick to getting the baby to latch on properly?

BF is often really hard at first and the key is getting good advice from a BF counsellor as midwives do not always give good advice. They latch is all important to avoid sore nipple (although many people have sore nips at first, which then heal up). Don't be worried if you get sore nips - sort the latch out with advice and persevere one day at a time - it really does get better after the first few weeks.

Good luck and hope your birth goes well and you enjoy feeding!

[DaphneHarvey]

Bumper, breastfeeding is indeed a knack which mother and baby need to learn. However, you are quite right, you only tend to hear about the problems on here.

I breastfed my first successfully to 12 months, even though I had a crash caesarian and general anaesthetic. The hospital did formula feed her for the first 24 hours because I was mostly asleep. I didn't even try to get her on the breast until she was 24 hours old. But it still worked, she was fine, I had good bf support in hospital.

My nipples were sore and they hurt for a while. The baby was latched on properly, but it does still hurt for a while ... be prepared for that, so you don't give up even if it brings tears to your eyes sometimes.

My second baby went on the breast straight away (another c-section, but this time only epidural). I knew he was latched on properly and feeding well. It still hurt for a week or two.

I think its an unhelpful myth that properly latched on babies NEVER hurt. Too many people give up because they think the baby isn't latched on properly or is NEVER going to latch on properly. Your nips just need to toughen up a little bit.

A properly latched on baby has mouth wide, lips rolled in slightly over gums. He doesn't make a tiny little hole with his mouth and just suck on the sticky-out bit of your nipple. He gets a good mouthful and uses his tongue to push on the underside of the aereola (sp?).

And expressing - as someone else said, give yourself a while to get used to breastfeeding, to get a good supply going, then use an Avent pump and express as early as you can in the day. I'd say at least a month until breastfeeding well established.

Good luck.

[coleyboy]

Looks like all your questions have been answered. But I would add that the best piece of advice I got about bf was, the first 6 weeks are the hardest and once you get past it it's smooth sailing.

The above comment makes is sound like the first 6 weeks are awful - they're not. I used the piece of advice as a mantra when I was feeding for the 4th time that night (which can also be the same for a ff baby btw), and it made me persevere when it seemed easier to turn to formula.

I'm still bf'ing ds who is 8mo, and I can say that it's the most rewarding thing I have ever done.

[seeker]

I think that people who find breast feeding easy often keep quiet about it because they worry about sounding smug or insensitive but the truth is that the vast majority of the world's women just feed their babies without thinking about it - they just do it. And a lot of women in the developed world do too, but here there are other cultural and physical factors that can make it difficult for some. If it helps - and I really don't mean to sound either smug or insensitive, I fed my dd for 3 years and my ds for a year without the slightest difficulty. It took a few days for dd and me to get used to it, and I did find it a bit of a struggle in hospital - it was so light and loud and jangly, but as soon as we got home we both relaxed and it just clicked. By the time she was 3 weeks old, I was able to feed her in trains and by the time she was 6 weeks old, I fed her standing up in the queue in Tescos. Be calm and confident, assume it's going to work, and the chances are it will. Remember, babies are programmed to survive If it doesn't ask for help - there's lots of it about. Oh, and I never burped either of mine - if they needed to burp, they did (usually in the loudest and most embarassing c1rcumstances possible)

Oh, and one last point - be prepared to do nothing much except breatfeed for at least the first two weeks!
And well done for thinking about it so clearly and so early.

[coleyboy]

Totally agree DH, i got sore nips at first but it soon passed. Would recommend you buy some Lansinoh for your nips now, so you have it to hand as soon as you need it. It may seem expensive (£10), but I don't know anyone who has used more than one tube.

Also I had a painful letdown at first, it lasted for 5 secs after latch on and only for the first two weeks.

Am not telling this to scare you, honest! I just believe that if I was aware about the letdown in advance it wouldn't have seemed such a big thing at the time.

[pinkspottywellies]

I agree that it's unhelpful to say that it doesn't hurt because if it does you feel like you're doing something wrong.
I got blisters on my nipples for the first couple of days - although the latch was fine I think dd was slipping off during the feed. I also found it quite sore when my milk came in around day 4 and had a blocked duct at about 3 months.
BUT none of that sticks in my mind and it can't have been that bad because I'm still exclusively bf at 5 months and would say that I've had no problems and found it quite easy!

[yogimum]

I went to a NCT breastfeeding workshop before my DS was born and still go regularly to breastfeeding support groups where there are usually a breastfeeding counsellor present. I think the NCT has a helpline aswell.

[suzi2]

You're definately doing the right thing in finding out as much as possible now. My head was all over the place after having DS and I was sort of on auto pilot. It was good that I had mumsnet to ask all my questions on at 3am! www.kellymom.com is a great site with loads of useful info.

1. Ideally offer a feed ASAP but don't stress over it. I think they can easiy go 24hrs without a feed - possibly more... I'm sure one of the gurus will be on at some point and will know. The hospital will likely stress loads about it though! Just stick to your guns or take advice from a bf counsellor (take the phone numbers for BFN, ABM, NCT, LLL etc into hospital with you). If you give the baby lots of opportunity they tend to get interested and feed better - so do lots of skin to skin rather than putting them in the cot all the time. Newborns can be really sleepy may need woken to feed - stripping them down and nappy changing etc can wake them up a bit if required. And remember, if you haven't managed a feed and you're worried or getting stress from the hospital you can express colostrum and give it via a syringe. Just a few ml is enough to keep them going a while.
   
   
2. Your milk can take quite a few days to come in if you have a slow start. Best to cross this bridge if you come to it. If you're a couple of days in and really aren't getting anywhere at all, try and speak to a bf counsellor - they know a lot more than most midwives.
   
   
3. Best to wait a few weeks to let your supply establish and settle before expressing. I would say do what works for you - morning and whilst feeding with an electric pump worked best for me with DS. With DD, afternoon is when I have more time so express then if I need to. Don't be disapointed if you don't get a lot - an ounce or two is pretty good going!
   
   
4. lol - this one still troubles me at times. I have winded DS and DD but in all honesty, I'm not sure it has helped a lot. They both had/have a lot of trapped wind anyway. So now if DD (9wks) falls asleep and I want her to stay asleep I don't wind her. I sometimes try and sit her up a touch in my arms for 10 mins before putting her down.
   
   
5. The way to get a good latch is to be informed before hand (that kellymom site is good) and to get good support when the time comes - again from a bf counsellor. There are tips, techniques etc but do whatever works for you.
   
   I dispute that there will always be sore nipples to start with. I had a milk blister on one side with DS which made me sore but the other side was just fine. I think that if you're toe curling sore for more than a 30 secs into the feed then the latch could probably be improved. Any cracking, bleeding, blisters or bruising isn't 'normal' and you should speak to a bf counsellor to see if they can suggest ways to improve things. Lansinoh is fab for healing, but if the problem is still there then the healing will be short lived.
   
   I found the emotional side of bf hard to get to grips with. I worried about everything (latch, enough milkd, weight gain) and also felt totally tied to DS and the sofa. With DD I'm appreciating the time tied to the sofa! Feed on demand, but don't be surprised if your baby is VERY demanding. I used to rock DS to sleep as I truly believed he couldn't still be hungry but now I realise that he may very well have wanted to be fed 30 mins after the last feed!
   
   Best of luck. I fed DS for almost a year and the support on here was pretty much what kept me going in the first few months. So post whenever you're having worries.

[suzi2]

bloody hell - sorry that's a complete essay!

[bumperlicious]

Thanks so much for all of your advice. It's really is reassuring me - even the scary stuff! I just want to be prepared. I'm still checking in so any other advice from anyone would be appreciated.

[Myfairone]

This post was really helpful for me too. I'm not due until July but have been looking around for information. I have a book coming from Amazon and plan on looking at the Kellymom site too.

Thanks for the fab advice ladies!

[worzella]

I think it's worth remembering that it may be tricky at first but:

1. If you ask for help and the midwives see that you are determined, then they will help

1. Remember that there are bf consellors out there (NCT, La Leche etc.)

1. Most people can do it and it will get easier

1. If you can do it, then it's easier, cheaper and a whole lot less hassle ( no remembering all the paraphinalia that bottles etc. need)

1. Oh - and it's better for baby too!

Best Wishes with it

[Nettee]

This really long but I hope you find some of it helpful - In the end you do what works for you having heard lots of advice. I am a midwife and I have had one DS of my own who I BF for 16 months

I think the best advice is to go to a breastfeeding antenatal session if your hospital offers them - if they don't maybe even worth calling another hospital as it can really help to have it all explained properly in advance and see videos of babies latching etc. Also buy breast feeding books and have a really good idea of what a good latch is and how to hold the baby.

1. Ideally feed the baby at the first chance you get - as soon as you get back to the labour room after a caesarean. It takes the baby a little while after the birth to start rooting - 20 - 40 minutes, but once they start this is the best time as the insincts are strongest. However lots of babies are sleepy for 24 hours and although you should keep trying you don't need to use formula for at least this long - hopefully longer as you will be able to hand express and give the baby your milk by cup or syringe.

Another bit of advice in my opinion is to practice this now and be confident that you can do it before the baby is born in case you get into this situation. Loads of mums really struggle with the technique and so don't get as much colustrum as they could to give their babies.

Then the baby will wake up and be hungry and it is much easier to teach a hungry ish baby to feed as he or she is motivated!. Remember you both have to learn how to do it and it can take a while - feeding can take 6 weeks to be well established.

1. Oh I have answered some of this already - as I say hand expressing for the first few days if things aren't going so well. Your milk comes in around day 3 or 4 pretty much regardless of stimulation - ( just ask anyone who FF from the start how uncomfortable they got) so lots of time to practice. If things are still not going so well you can start pumping at that point. Keep trying baby at the breast though, you can get into a bit of a pattern - baby to breast, give expressed milk, pump for next feed. If you do this then really you have an almost unlimited time to sort things out but having said that baby is better at stimulating your breasts than the pump so your supply might reduce gradually. It all works on supply and demand so if you stop feeding and pumping the milk gradually goes away but this doesn't happen fast and you can build your supplies up again by feeding often

1. assuming everything goes well I wouldn't express until 5 or 6 weeks when feeding is well established. I then found this a pain and didn't do it very much - sterilising and more painful than baby feeding. I used the avent hand pump which works quite well but as someone else said and electric pump is less strenuous on the hands. Dads can do loads of other things with the baby - bathing, nappy changing, cooing, settling to sleep, How important is it that he can feed him or her too???? It is up to you really, some people like to sleep through one feed every 24 hours and I can see that but you still have to sit and pump for ages in order to acheive it and baby can feed in bed with you while you go back to sleep.

1. winding the baby - if they are asleep then I wouldn't bother as they are comfortable. if they normally need winding and are not asleep then probably worth it. Some people say breast fed babies don't need winding but mine did. See how it goes really.

1. I found breast feeding easy!!!! but then I was very well informed in advance and after 24 hours of sleep DS latched on well and was no problem. tips for a good latch:

get yourself comforatable

arrange baby "tummy to mummy" and "nose to nipple" so she/he doesn't have to twist his neck

support baby's shoulders so he/she can tip her head back

support your breast from underneath flattening it in line with baby's mouth - think of him eating a sandwhich

wait for a wide open mouth

bring baby positively to you - don't lean over to baby

aim you nipple at the top of the back of baby's palate and make sure he gets a big mouthful of breast

check that the bottom lip is curled down, the whole jaw is moving and you can hear swallows.

It shouldn't hurt after the first 10 seconds or so - if it does take baby off and start again

this can all be followed with baby under your arm, across your chest or lying down beside you. if baby seems to like one side better try changing positions

start each feed on opposite breast and once baby looses interest offer other breast for the end of the feed.

lots of people breast feed with no problem so it is possible. I think a lot depends on how easily the baby takes to it - some take a while to learn and others just do it really quickly.

Oh and buy some Laninsoh and start using it before baby arrives - and get some lansinoh disposable breast pads (and no they don't pay me to say that!)

Good luck!!!

[Nettee]

oh yes one more thing - feed whenever baby looks hungry even if he or she has just fed. I think it is a case of go with the flow for the first little while and very frequent feeding doesn't mean you are not producing enough milk or that the baby is "using your breast as a dummy". As I say supply and demand so frequent feeding ups your supply and then it might settle for a while followed by another growth spurt with lots of feeding.

[katwith3kittens]

Make sure you drink plenty and eat for england (or wherever you live). I have found BF very easy (in fact I am doing it now as I type one handed) and so glad I gave it a go. Good luck.

[Katy44]

Thanks for this thread, it's really useful.
Question about lanisoh - I bought a tube but it's like treacle - I couldn't spread it anywhere! Is that how it's meant to be or have I got a funny tube? surely it would be impossible to put your clothes on after putting that anywhere near your breasts?

[Olihan]

Katy, it is like that, don't worry. You only need a tiny bit, if you warm the blob up by rubbing your fingers together it spreads easily.

And remember, you only need to put it on your nipps .

[Katy44]

I'll have another go tonight - probably had far too much last time

[Myfairone]

Nettee, thank you so much!!! That advice has been printed off and stored for future reference. It is so reassuring to hear so many positive things about breastfeeding and I feel so much better about it after reading your posts.

Mumsnet is wonderful! Thank you ladies.

[fearscape]

Don't know whether I am really adding anything to the brilliant advice already given but here goes . . .

Ds was born by em-cs at 34 weeks, I only started expressing 2 days after birth and trying to bf about 2 weeks after that, he is now 8 months old and still happily bf! So don't worry if things don't get off to a great start, it's still possible! Have just had to introduce formula as going back to work and am horrified by the amount of effort it involves - once you get the hang of it bf is so much easier.

Echo recommendations for Avent pumps. IME they are just as good as the horrible giant hospital ones. I have a hand one but if you were going to express every day it would be worth getting an electric one.

Unless you're very lucky I think it probably will hurt for a bit. I was told the expressing shouldn't hurt if I was doing it right and was checked by the SCBU breast-feeding counseller but it was still excrutiatly painful to begin with. I also have a strong let-down and even now it can be a bit uncomfortable, but only for a few seconds.

Sorry one last piece of advice - make yourself a "feeding station" with comfy chair, drink, tv remote, good book, phone etc all within easy one-handed reach - you'll be spending a lot of time there! I found a nursing pillow absolutely invaluable (especially after cs), I still use it even now.

Good luck!