Dh is really struggling with me breastfeeding, need some advice on how to help him.

[Olihan]

I didn't manage to successfully bf ds1 or dd (gave up at 3/4 weeks with both) but ths time, thanks to MN, ds2 is now 15 weeks and exclusively bf.

Dh was completely supportive whle I was struggling to get it established, never once mentioned formula, put up with the emotional mess I became afetr every weigh in (ds2 took 6 weeks to regain his birthweight), took over all the care for ds1 and dd while I fed, did all the housework, etc after he'd been at work all day while I did the evening cluster feeding and was generally a complete hero.

However, he's now finding it really hard because he can't do much for ds2. With ds1 and dd he did 50% or more of the caring when he was home, including the night wakings, nappy changes, bathtime, playing etc. He is a very, very, hands on dad and I'm really lucky in that respect. I think he's now getting very frustrated that he can't be as hands on with ds2 or develop the same bond as he did with the other 2.

He doesn't get in from work until 6pm, which is the usual witching hour. Ds2 is particularly grizzly at that time and often just wants a feed and bed. If I give him to dh for a cuddle he just cries and cries until I take him back and then he stops instantly. Understandably, dh is quite upset about this - last week he didn't see him smile once, until saturday morning .

Weekends are a bit easier but ds2 still seems to be very clingy to me and is a lot whingier when he's with dh. I don't know if this is to do with bf or whether that's just his temperament, no way of knowing that I guess.

Bathtime in the evening is out of the question because a) ds2 hates baths with a passion and b) he's usually too tired. He doesn't like having his nappy changed either, so poor dh feels as though everything he does upsets ds2.

He still hasn't mentioned formula, but I'm sure he's thinking it sometimes. I've started expressing at 10pm, and can usually manage 4-5oz, which dh then gives when ds2 next wakes. It depends a bit on ds2 though, sometimes he wakes earlier so I have to bf him and can't express and dh can't give a feed that night.

I don't want to give formula but I also don't want dh's relationship with ds2 to suffer. So, what do I do? I'm sure he's not the only dad to have felt like this, it's a whole new ball game to us though.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Cazee]

What about expressing during the first feed in the morning (I get lots more then than at other times of the day), and then toping the bottle up during the day if you don't get enough in one go. DH could then feed the baby when he gets in from work, giving him special time, and you a lovely rest during that fretful evening period?

[Cazee]

Also, I have found that my DD (15w)loves an evening walk in her pushchair, maybe your DH could take him out for 30mins or so when he gets home, just the two of them? (I wish my DH wanted to, I would love the peace!)

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

I only have one child so far so can't comment on having more than one but I BF exclusively and DD has never had a bottle (still on two feeds now at 13mths) so I would say that it does get easier. There are so many ways daddies can bond such as skin to skin either in the bath or not, doing bathtimes, nappy changing and so on. This is such a short stage in their lives - my DD has a wonderful relationship with her Daddy despite being completely BF. It won't affect the relationship long term.

[hunkermunker]

His relationship won't suffer because he can't feed him. I promise you. DS2 would be just as gribbly at 6pm if he was ffed, I bet.

He can still do the bathing, changing, etc - and lots of cuddles too.

Can he take a day off once in a while to spend some time with DS2?

He may well be clingy to you even if you ffeed him - I really wouldn't switch him to formula just because it might mean he smiles at his dad at 6pm.

He'll get older, find it easier to keep awake later without being cross and in a couple of months, DH will be able to sit with him while he eats/feed him and introduce him to a whole range of flavours. FAR more interesting than milk feeding, IMO

[Lazycow]

I personally would say that this also about temperament and also being a third child (i.e less time for everyone all round than if there is just 1 or 2) than just the breastfeeding.

As hunkermunker says this will get better with time. However I do understand that your dh may secretly (even if he doesn't say anything) feel that if he fed your ds sometimes he might have a better reslationship with him. I think this is probably not true but it wouldn't hurt to try it (expressed milk not formula if you can) so that your dh can see that it will probably not make much difference. Some babies just prefer their mums for a long time.

I assume your ds2 is taking a bottle so I would second Cazee's suggestions with my own twist. Spend a few days expressing when you can and freeze what you get.

Then just keep topping up the freezer with whatever you can express whenever you get a minute. That way you have a small bank of frozen milk you can use for those days when your ds wakes earlier or for when you really can't be pfaffed to do it at 10pm.

[Olihan]

Thanks folks, I know formula isn't the way to go and tbh, I wasn't even considering it - I feel too damn proud of myself for getting the bf sorted to start ff now!

Poor dh just feels like he can't do anything right for ds2 at the moment!

Hunker, he's a teacher so he gets his holidays, I think he just finds it hard to come home after a day of grotty teenagers to a gribbly (love that word) baby who won't even be cuddled.

I have thought about expressing in the morning but it's so much of a struggle to get all 3 of them (and me) up, dressed, breakfasted and out of the house by 8:30 for the preschool run that I think trying to ft in an expressing session might just about finish me off . Ds2 also feeds from both sides at every feed so i can't even do one side while he feeds on the other.

Oh, bf is so tricky in some ways, it's a real mental battle too, I find.

[Olihan]

X posts Lazycow.

'Some babies just prefer their mums for a long time' - I think that's just what it is, but ds1 and dd weren't and I think dh sees the only difference in how they are fed, rather than just different personalities.

Expressing a lot for a few days is a good idea, it's finding the time in between dealing with ds1 and dd. I'll suggest doing it at the weekend so dh can look after them.

[Kif]

It's a tiny part of their life. Soon your dh can have all the fun of shoving pureed mush in his face and the rest of the gubbins!

My dh has always majored on carrying the kids when tiny (i.e. in baby bjorn but also occassional chest sleeping). My kids have bith been poor sleepers at that age, and dh taking him to the park in babyu bjorn gave me some of the only quiet steches I got. Think they found the physical closeness bonding.

At this stage - it's all about ds2 - and he needs you and your milk. dh's giving him a big gift if he gives you a hand with the elder two so that you can focus on making the lo well fed and secure. I'd just really spread it on thick with the praise for your dh - emphasise how helpful your dh is being, and how nice it is for you that you've had the support to get the feeding how you want it.

[Lazycow]

olihan - You know some babies are like that. Ds always was and dh gave a bottle of expressed milk most days and spent loads of time with him. I honestly don't think your dh feeding him either ebm or formula will make much difference to that. I suggested the little bank of milk partly because I thought if your dh gave one bottle a day for a few days/weeks he might see that it made very little difference.

Also I found it really freeing to have 2-3 bottle worths of milk in the freezer for those odd occasions I needed to get out for a while and wanted to be out a bit more than 1.5 hours which is the maximum time I usually had between the end of one feed and the beginning of the next.

I found it less stressful to know that I could get back in 2 or more hours and dh could give a bottle if needed. Ds often didn't need it but it helped me relax a bit.

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

My DD is very Mummy-centric... and in the beginning I think we put it down to BF but as it turns out she is quite a quiet reserved child who likes familarity and takes time warming up to others.

[Lazycow]

sorry cross posts again - me this time !!

[Lazycow]

I also used to express most evenings at about 10pm (though I stopped when ds got to about 4 months old as he started taking so long to drink a bottle it was ridiculous whereas the bfeeding statted to go from 50 mins to 20mins at the same time) but as you say sometimes ds woke earlier.

I always defrosted a bottle from the freezer and used the 10pm expressing to replace it.

[Olihan]

I think I need to start making sure there is a bottle in the fridge, ready for the late evening feed so dh can do it, regardless of what time ds2 wakes. That's a good point about him then realising that it's nothing to do with the feeding.

Kif he puts the other 2 to bed every night, because I'm usually tied up with ds2. I probably do need to make that into more of a deal, at the moment I just take it for granted, which is a bit thoughtless, I suppose.

I also think we have a tendency to attribute everything that's different with ds2 to the bf, rather than considering that he's just himself. He's a rubbish sleeper (we co sleep, which we didn't with ds1 and dd) and can't settle himself, unlike them at this age. We did introduce a dummy so he will go to sleep on that, rather than always feeding to sleep, but he screams for a good 5 mins with dh, whereas he'll just go straight off with me. I think he's just a mummy's boy, isn't he?

[Olihan]

DD has just woken from her nap so Ill be offline for a bit, until after bedtime I think, so apologies if I don't respond to any new posts!

[hunkermunker]

Olihan, he's a different baby, that's all, IMO.

Both my DSs have been bfed. DS1 was a daddy's boy when he was a baby - he'd fall asleep on him (never on me, unless bfeeding), he found it hard to settle himself to sleep when he was a baby (so I bfed him to sleep a lot till he was about 7 or 8mo), he hated co-sleeping and much preferred being spread out in his cot with his bear. He slept through at about 5mo, not reliably, but fairly often and was almost 100% reliable by the time he was 19mo - will still nap for three hours given half a chance and sleep all night at 3yo.

DS2 on the other hand, same parents, same method of feeding - I could put him down awake when he was a newborn and he'd be fast asleep without a murmur a minute or two later. OK, he often had catnaps, and he cluster fed in the evenings, etc, etc - but still. But for the first four or five months of his life, he was a definite mummy's boy - people used to comment about it because he got properly upset if he was passed to someone else for a cuddle when he was really little - 3mo. Only I would do. Now? Now he signs milk when he sees me because he knows I'm the only one who'll bfeed him(!) but he's like a small puppy with everyone else - often people look surprised they're holding a child because they haven't noticed picking him up

So try hard not to ascribe his personality to his feeding method. It may play some part, but you won't know how much unless you swap feeding method - and if he's more prone to gribbliness (I love that word too - describes it perfectly!) than the others were, he might be even more so than they were if you take away the bfeeding he seems to love so much.

Massive post to say what I said earlier, I think

[Indith]

Do you do massage Oli? ds always has a prebed massag which he loves, anyone can do that and it is great for bonding. Nothing fancy just a gentle rub.

[3andnomore]

Haven't read the whole thread...but well, for what it's worth...I have bf'ed all mine and ys was bf'ed the longest out of all 3...however, from day 1 he has also been closer to my dh then me...indeed, feeding seemed the only thing I did get right wiht him!
I am sure your dh will find his "niche" with this little one, as time goes on!

[theUrbanDryad]

i was worrying about how my dh was bonding with ds (then 8 weeks or so) and suggested they have a bath together and some skin-to-skin time snuggled up in dh's dressing gown!

you say your ds doesn't like baths? are you sure they're not too cold? i did the 37c thing and it seemed really cold and ds screamed and screamed for about 2 weeks, but when i started to do them a wee bit warmer he calmed down a bit and now at 14 weeks loves his baths!!

(sorry, not meaning to patronise, i mean, you've got 3 kids and i've only got 1, but it was something that astonished me. the bath thing, i mean. waffle waffle waffle)

well done with the bf-ing though!!

[yellowrose]

Olihan - my ds was excl. bf until 6 months and still bf at 2.9 yo - dh and I had the opposite problem with ds for the first few months, daddy was much better at calming ds. That is because babies can smell milk on you and go into a frenzy every now and then if the only cuddle they get is from a mummy smelling of milk !

I honestly can't see how ebm/formula out of a bottle helps a man bond with a baby, as some people seem to claim. Men are not biologically programmed to give milk to babies, they don't have boobs nor milk, so evolution/biology pretty much exclude them from that role whether they like it or not There are so many others ways babies/toddlers can bond with daddies. As your baby grows, your dh will be able to give him solids. At six months daddy can cook and give food. That must be as good if not better and more fun than milk ?

[mears]

Olihan - my DH used to sit with our babies lying on his chest after a feed, tucked in under his chin. Once you have fed DS2, let him cuddle him especially if he is calm and sleeping. No need to put him in bed.

DH can still change his nappy whether he likes it or not. Make sure you are not too quick to take over when DS2 is crying. That can happen whther FF or BF - mums can be too hasty to take over without realising what they are doing.

Definitely do not agree that dads need to do feeds to bond.

[macneil]

I've always bottle fed, because I couldn't get my dd to latch, but my dh, who has always been crazily in love with dd, has gone through periods of wishing he could do more with the baby, having been restricted because of my mum being around in the beginning, then more recently because of work etc. I've found that when I've asked him to do more, though, to give me a break, he's quickly tired of always doing the feeds, and it's the idea that he's been sort of held off, or shut out (which he hasn't been) that makes him react that way, more than actual hours of contact. So I do agree with people who advise you to give exclusive time with ds and your husband - it doesn't matter if he cries at first, as he gets older you'll both work out things he loves doing with dh or ways dh has of making him laugh, like silly songs or something like that (my dh sings the theme from Godzilla to dd and it makes her giggle). He also does the dreamfeed so I can sleep - he has a little quiet time alone with her and no longer feels excluded. Just blithely leave ds with him from time to time as if it's no big deal and you're not worried about any consequences, and then vamoose, put on some laundry, whatever. No harm will come to your ds, and dh will persevere and enjoy himself.

[Aloha]

The fretful all evening stage will pass really soon now, and things will feel very different then. Does he ever put ds2 in a sling and walk around with him at weekends? That's nice and cosy.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Ditto what hunker and mears said.

Its funny how their character can show through at such a young age.

[peanutbutterkid]

(ON OP) why can't he use the weekday evening time to give special attention to the older children? That's special, too. Use the situation as an opportunity, not an obstacle. Such a short period, in hindsight, when they are so clingy to mum and wanting frequent feeds.