Help with breastfeeding!

[babyhamish]

Firstly I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place I just can't seem to find s breastfeeding thread.

My 9 week old baby is breastfed. We had a few issues in the first 2 Weeks with me being aneamic and my milk taking 2 Weeks to come in so I had to offer her formula top up after every breastfeed.
She was eventually weaned off the formula and had last one at exactly 2 Weeks Old.
Since then she has fed between 2/3 hours going a little longer in the night except for when we had a few days of a growth spurt.
The day she turned 6 weeks she started wanting to be fed every hour and was really fussy inbetween feeds and during most feeds too, she was still only waking once at night tho. At first i thought it was a growth spurt but it's gone on for 3 weeks now and the feeds have gradually gotten closer and closer together to the point that she will sleep from 10pm to 1am then wake to be fed every hour til about 6am. She will then sleep for another 2 hours. When she wakes the feeds throughout the day in length of max 1hr15mins to 40 mins!
I have spoke to gp who said to offer her a couple of formula topups so my body can catch up and produce more milk. He thinks I'm producing mostly fore milk and not much hind milk as she has lots of wet nappies but not many dirty ones and has dropped down a centile when she was weighed.
However I was always told that offering formula would decrease supply?
Spoke to a health visitor who thinks I shouldn't give a top up and should pump straight after a feed to increase supply? But sometimes she will feed for 40 mins then 20 mins after that be rooting for more food! When am I supposed to do all this pumping I'm not sure?
Anyway I'm really sorry for the long post but just wondered if anyone had been through anything similar and what they did that actually works. I really don't want to give up on breastfeeding but i feel it isn't right/normal for a 9 week old to want to be fed all day and night every 40mins!
Please help any suggestions will be gladly taken!

[Callamia]

Hurrah for conflicting advice!
First, you know that your doctor is talking out of their backside - giving a top-up will do nothing to help your supply (that's not to say don't do it if you want to btw). That fire and hind milk thing is also old-hat, and not really a thing. Breastfed babies often don't poo a lot (I think our record was something like 10 days). Wet nappies, an alert baby and growth is all a good indicator that feeding is ok.

Babies feed and root sometimes in order to increase supply - it's not al purely about feeding, so perhaps there's some of that going on. I know all this is incredibly tiring though, especially at night. Have you had your babies latch looked at? I guess you'd know if you were hurting during feeding, but perhaps she's not being as efficient as she might be. Are there some breastfeeding cafes/support groups near you to visit?

[user1493413286]

Is she definitely feeding for all that time or is she feeding then suckling for the comfort? Or just generally waking for the comfort of it rather than hunger?
I'd try the breastfeeding support at your local children's centre or NCT group as they can spend time with you going through it all and checking latch etc.

[littletwofeet]

Giving formula will REDUCE your supply, look up the 'top up trap'.

It sounds like possibly a milk transfer issue, rather than supply issue.

Sadly a lot of HCPs are not the best at give breastfeeding advice.

I would find a good lactation consultant who will be able to check for tounge tie, check latch and positioning (you can still have a poor latch and be pain free). You really need someone who can see you to assess this.
If you post your area in the feeding section, you may be to get a recommendation or look up lactation consultants where you are.

It sounds like you're doing fantastic though.

[babyhamish]

She latches really well. I feel like every health visitor in my area has checked my latch because of the problems we had at the start. I don't have a group specifically for breastfeeding near me but have had a specialist come to me and they gave me different info also. Everyone just keeps telling me it's normal but every 40mins ish for 20hrs is killing me! Thought it might be good to get advice from real mums who actually went through similar things

[littletwofeet]

Often health visitors aren't the best for breastfeeding advice.

Frequent feeding and spending a long time at the breast can indicate a milk transfer issue. Tounge tie, for example is often missed which is why getting her looked at by a lactation consultant may be good, even if it's just to rule issues out.

[MoHunter]

Firstly, baby dropping one centile is obviously something to keep an eye on but is not yet cause for concern - I was told (and online sources verify this) concern should start when they drop down two percentile lines.
Yes, you're right that topping up with formula will decrease your supply.

You say baby is fussy during feeds and between feeds so does that mean she isn't happy/satisfied even immediately after feeding? If so a latch problem or tongue tie is a possibility as PP has mentioned.

My DS1 had posterior tongue tie and while his latch looked "perfect" to HV and midwife he failed to thrive dropping several centile lines (he wasn't big to start with so actually went off the chart). He also took ages for every feed and there seemed to be little breaks between feeds! Basically due to his tongue tie he couldn't feed efficiently hence his frustration and need for such frequent feeding, he was just hungry all the time. :( Once he had the tongue tie snipped we still had lingering milk supply issues so I did end up having to top up for a while.
Definitely get some more advice and possibly a tongue tie referral to get it checked. Then again, it may just be a prolonged growth spurt I suppose. When is baby's next weigh-in?

I really feel for you, it's so hard when you get no break!!

[babyhamish]

She's getting weighed again in 2 Weeks as hv said exactly the same as you that the concern would be if she drops 2 centiles. She did have tounge tie checked at birth and was told it was fine. I will try get someone to check again tho. She was feeding perfect even with the problems we had at first right up until she turned 6 weeks tho so if it was that then she would have struggled sooner? I'm now thinking maybe because I'm so knackered my position I hold her has got shoddy and she's not getting very much at each feed? Gonna really focus on my position over next few days and see of that helps me
Thankyou I really appreciate someone to talk to xxx

[Newmanwannabe]

Topping up with formula will only decrease your supply if you are not stimulating your breasts adequately. So you could give formula and also express after feeds, and as your supply comes up you can offer expressed milk instead of the formula. If something is making transferring milk difficult maybe she is just getting too tired to feed efficiently so is falling asleep due to fatigue rather than satiety. She may need a few top ups a day to help combat the feeding fatigue. Obviously I don't know you so I'm not going to advise whether formula is necessary or not.. that's up to you and your health professionals. Definitely expressed milk sounds like it would be a good help, and may help combat the tiredness.

Did your GP discuss medications to help increase your supply? You could see about domperidone?. That along with expressing may help. Your other option is to give top ups using a supply line which will increase stimulation to the breast as well

If milk transfer is an issue, making your supply surplus to what she needs will make transfer easier for her, thus reducing the fatigue.
Can you aim for your feed to be no more than 1 hour. Including nappy change and top up etc. might mean not doing a breast feed for 40min, but stopping a bit earlier than that, until you turn the corner. That hopefully will then give you a bit of time to express as well

[Newmanwannabe]

Tongue tie often shows at 6+ weeks when your supply becomes more related to what she removes from the breast rather than what your hormones make them produce. Especially when there is no nipple pain

That said. Tongue tie is sometimes given as the root of all breastfeeding problems and it's not so black and white. Try to stay away from internet tongue tie forums....

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Can you feed lying down so you can snooze a bit? I did that with my DS as his frequent feeding was exhausting me.

The kellymom website is really helpful: kellymom.com/hot-topics/frequent-nursing/

[Alke]

I had similar concerns with my ds (now 11 months and still bf). I realised after a while that he wasn't actually feeding a lot of the time, just comfort sucking. It was exhausting at night as I didn't want to co sleep, but it did pass after a few weeks. It wasn't too bad in the day but he would want to feed on and off (mostly on) all evening between about 6 and 11 when he would eventually sleep a few hours.

No real advice other than to say that if it is mostly for comfort then I don't think it's that unusual?

[MoHunter]

I second the feeding lying down thing - just make sure there is no pillows/duvets etc around baby and that there is no risk of her falling off the bed. HVs will usually advise against sleeping next to baby but to be honest I would never have had a rest with DS2 otherwise and I did make sure it was perfectly safe (didn't drink alcohol etc). Good luck x

[scatterbrainmum]

Hey there just thought I'd add to the above comments, remember to look after yourself too it's really important for your supply to drink plenty and eat well, oaty snacks (oats are good for boosting supply) energy rich snacks i.e. Nuts, bananas, etc if you do not eat well and drink enough there's nothing worth making the milk with. You can also get herbal teas which boost your supply (not sure if these are effective or not but maybe worth a try?) Also do you have someone who can be around for you to take a nap/rest if you are so tired that can have an effect on your supply too (I know that sound ridiculous all new mums get knackered but any rest is good). Definitely investigate a lactation consultant you won't regret it 😊 hth good luck x

[littletwofeet]

Newmanwannabe is spot on regarding tounge tie often showing at 6+ weeks. Also completely agree that people are too quick to blame every problem and just 'normal' feeding on t.t.

Frequent feeding is common in lots of breastfed babies.
Long feeds are also common.
Fussy phases/growth spurts are normal.

However, I would say that frequent feeds and long feeds the way OP describes plus the fact that it began at 6 weeks, has gone on for so long and possible weight issues do indicate a possible milk transfer problem of some sort.

If it is a milk transfer issue and it's not sorted, you can then end up with a supply problem as the baby is not as effective at getting the milk so your body responds by not producing as much.

Agree with pp about feeding lying down.
Also breast compressions can help.

Glad you're going to get tt checked again. Please see a proper LC though as I've seen tt / latch and positioning missed by so many HCPs.

[charlotteelisabeth]

Sounds silly I know but oats are meant to be really good for supply issues. I had a massive meltdown at about 10 days in and 'gave up' for a day, this obviously led to supply issues and someone suggested oats. I had two lots of porridge everyday made with full fat milk and lots of flapjacks ended up with a really good supply.
As for the night thing of going a longer time then waking every hour... my 19 week old still does that now I think it's quite common as they don't sleep as deeply in the second part of the night.
Have you tried a dummy if fussy between feeds?

[charlotteelisabeth]

Sorry just saw that Scatterbrainmum suggested oats already

[KatherineMumsnet]

Hi OP - we've moved this to Infant Feeding for you now.

[babyhamish]

Thankyou for all the replies! So after going to a baby group to see a local breastfeeding specialist on Thursday morning she wasn't at that group this week!! Aarrrgghh!! However decided i was gonna go back to basics on Wednesday night and see if I could figure out what it could be. Turns out even tho I have had my position checked several times and told it was fine by 2 different health visitors it turns out it wasn't meaning she couldn't get the milk so was never getting full hence the rooting after 40/50 mins! Since wed she's slept all night except one feed between 1-3am and then is every 2.5-3hrs throughout the day and is so so much happier and not fussy at all!! Can't be live such a small thing can make such a HUGE difference!

Where is the infant feeding section/threads? I still can't find them?

[MoHunter]

Brilliant, glad to hear things are going better for you and baby now! Well done for hanging in there. Infant feeding is under "Feed the World".