Is "modern" breast milk really best?

[totsy]

Are there any medcal proffessionals or scientists able to answer this question (without starting any kind or argument cos thats not my point here) ??
I am wondering about the amount of toxins passed through the milk as a result of current poor diet.
pesticides, additives, cleaning fluid residues and general metabolic wastes that cannot be removed by sluggish digestive systems and overloaded lymphatic systems are stored in our fat. our bodies use our fat to make milk so are we passing a load of nasties to our babies?
Has any studies been done on this? Our breast tissue contains a lot of lymphatic vessels which carry waste. does this get into the milk?
Years ago there weren't loads of chemicals in our environment and the majority of people were too poor to over eat and become over weight or obese so they didn't have fat cells full of 'rubbish'.
I would love to hear a proffessional opinion on this.

[FrannyandZooey]

There has been studies done on this, yes - the conclusions were that the benefits of breast milk still outweigh the negatives.

I'll be back with a link for you.

[FrannyandZooey]

There's some good information here - I'll see if I can find the one that I was thinking of, though

[hercules1]

I believe that there are far more toxins passed through the actual bottles themselves than you get from breastmilk. I think our diets are actually far healthier now, arent we living much longer?
Breastmilk is virtually the same for all women around the world (read that recently on another thread).

[hercules1]

It did worry me using deoderant and I have heard of people using lemon juice instead. Didint want to risk being smelly though!

[FrannyandZooey]

This is fairly unequivocal:

"In reviewing investigations of contaminants in mother's milk collected by the La Leche League International Center for Breastfeeding Information, the research shows consistently that even in a polluted world, breastfeeding offers advantages which outweigh the risk of ingesting possible contaminants. Indeed, the benefits of breastfeeding may prove to be essential to compensate for and outweigh the risks of toxic effects from the environment. The focus of scientific concerns should be directed toward removing such chemicals from our environment, not casting doubts about the only unprocessed source of perfect nutrition for infants--human milk.

La Leche League International is concerned that speculation by the uninformed may cause mothers to discontinue breastfeeding. Human milk is a living, changing fluid which adapts to the needs of the developing infant. There is no way human milk can be duplicated. Also, a discussion of this topic is incomplete without pointing out the well-documented nutritional inadequacies and detrimental health consequences of artificial baby milk, which may be contaminated both as products of the same environment and through processing"

I am trying to find the link to the study itself - was it with the first link I posted?

[FrannyandZooey]

Herc you can get deodorants with no aluminium in - I believe that's one of the worrying things in them. I find most 'green' brands work pretty well - not the Weleda one though which is mostly lemon juice

[tiktok]

totsy, you need to assess the pesticides taken in by modern-day cows, and their artificial diet (formula is factory processed cows milk). You need to assess the water used to reconstitute the formula. You need to assess the rubber or silocone used to make teats, and the plastic used to make bottles. All of these things have been shown to contain contaminants.

Breastfeeding is a way of feeding our babies in an eco-friendly way. We don't need a huge industrial process to feed our babies - the food is right there with no transportation, storage, sterilisation required

[WanderingTrolley]

Um, if all the crap is in breast milk, surely it's in formula too?

Or is it safely filtered out, or are all cows lentil weaving groovey fruitarians, living in a hermetically sealed organic oxygen rich biosphere?

[totsy]

wandering trolley- that was funny! Got some amusing images in my head now!!
Franny-thanks for your info very much appreciated
Its been a really big worry for me this subject! and then I worried that if I brought it up I'd end up causing a huge argument on here and I hate all that.

[beansprout]

Nice one Franny for coming straight up with the goods and deflecting a kick off!!

[Flamesparrow]

Hercules - you can get the salt deodorants I was dubious to start with but they are great!

[hercules1]

thanks but no need now as my breastfeeding days are over!

[twentypence]

I think it's still a good idea to avoid aluminium in deodrant - isn't it linked to breast cancer as well?

[yellowrose]

Yes, there have been studies on this and there was a doc. about it a few years ago when I was pregnant and I remember seeing an article in the Guradian around the same time.

I am not an expert, but the conslusions of the studies are that the BENEFITS of bm outweight any risk of what you call nasties passing into the baby.

HIV in the mother would be one of the very few situations where the mother must not bf.

There have been many cases of toxins being discovered in formula milk, including those in Europe or USA that have made babies very very ill, leading to death in a some cases. You can see evidence of these cases on the Baby Milk Action website.

There are means of minimising chemicals getting into bm. You can switch to less harsh, organic foods and say household cleaning products, make up, hair dye, etc that have far fewer if any chemicals at all. Ideally do this when pregnant. Not the cheapest option, but certainly worth the investment if you are worried.

[tiktok]

yellowrose, it's not totally clear cut about HIV and bf.

The advice in most western countries is indeed that women with HIV should be advised not to bf, but in fact the research shows that while it is certainly possible for HIV to be passed on via the breastmilk, it may be that the important thing to avoid is mixed feeding - exclusive breastfeeding appears to be no more unsafe than exclusive formula feeding. In situations where it is very risky to formula feed - for instance where it is difficult to maintain clean formula feeding, or adequate formula feeding - it may be better for HIV mothers to breastfeed.

There's a discussion on this in the current BMJ here

The importance of avoiding mixed feeding, or indeed anything but breastmilk, is that introducing other foods seems to affect the gut, so the transmission of the virus from breastmilk happens more easily.

[manuka]

I feel really bad about this topic. I had such a bloody awful dramatic labour and ridiculous emergency section situation which was like a bad film that I ended up in shock and no breast milk even though I hand pumped and electric pumped every 2 to 3 hours even through the night -what a lunatic- for over a week!
So no option other than formula and even though she's 8 months and usually healthy apart from the odd cold I still feel utterly shite and inadequate and everything I'd imagined motherhood and birth to be has just been the opposite. I feel really resentful and awful and rubbish and shit and this is the only place where I can say this because friends and family will think I'm crazy to still feel this way.
Its f**king awful to rely on "Cow and Gate" to feed my child. AWFUL When I bottle feed in public I feel that people look at me and think Look at that uneducated woman feeding packet shit to her poor baby.
I think I need some counselling!!!!!!

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[yummybunnymummy]

Hi Manuka, I'm sorry that you feel bad at the moment. Whilst there are many positives to B/F it is not the only thing that denotes your success as a mother.

I used to prattle on in my pregnancy at how disgusted I was with mums who used disposable nappies and that I was certainly not going to contribute to land-fill and expose my babies bums to nappy chemicals etc....you get the idea.. however after my long first labour and birth I was shattered and all my good nappy intentions were thrown out the window.

I reached a point where I realised that motherhood doesn't always go as you'd planned or anticipated and hoped. I've learned with my DH to develop the confidence to do what is best for us as a family at the time, with the information we know.

It sounds like you had a traumatic labour and birth which still upsets you. It sounds like you really tried to express and B/F but it didn't work out and at the time if you were that ill then introducing formula was probably your last option.

Try and look at all the other wonderful things only you can provide for your child, like giving your time and love. Are you making her own solids food (if shes weaning?).

I'm sorry I'm not sure I'm really helping very much but I just wanted to try and make you feel better. It may help to try and talk to your family and friends they may understand more than you realise. I read in a survey somehwere that not B/F is one of the biggest things mums feel guilty about in later life and as much as I promote and go on about B/F it is not the only thing that makes motherhood and your child healthy, loved and successful. With everything that has been thrown at you, don't feel bad, you have a beautiful healthy girl who you just need to enjoy.

[manuka]

thanks feel better for letting off steam

[moondog]

Ah Manuka
You tried your best.
That's all we can do.

[manuka]

i am making food cos she hates jars so thats good! I can do something!!! i didn't think I'd feel so bad because I was bottle fed.

[manuka]

Actually having thought about it, one good thing is that whilst pregnant I fully expected to have to carry her in a sling all day like my neices and nephews and I expected her to cry a lot and thats been the total opposite! She only cries if tired or hungry and can sit and enjoy her toys for ages and laughs loads especially at my hair for some reason! But God the milk thing is really something I just can't get over. The Breast Police were really full on at the hospital and were hugely against formula. They said I wasn't allowed home until my milk came in! I'd still be there to this day if I hadn't exploded into tears and begged to be 'let out'!!! I had to show them I knew how to hand pump properly!! I could do a degree in breastfeeding from that experience! So their excessive attitude didn't help me feel like a good mother.

[moondog]

I can see how you felt 'got at'.
But consider also that many many women feel they aren't offered any support or assistance with b/feeding in hospitals at all.

All our experiences (whether good or bad) can help other women in similar situations in the future I feel.

[FrannyandZooey]

Manuka I would say that if this is upsetting you to the point that you are feeling like a crap mother then, yes, I would consider having some counselling. You don't deserve to feel that way and you deserve to be enjoying this time with your baby.

I can only imagine how your experiences have made you feel, but I can honestly say that, although breastfeeding has been a hugely important part of being a parent for me personally, there is SO much more to being a mother, and to being a good mother, than breastfeeding.

[manuka]

There's a counsellor where my friend works so I think I will go because it's 8 months now and I need to sort it out. I used to think running my own business was hard but its laughably easy compared to parenting.
At least when my daughter has babies I'll be able to teach her how to bf!