BF help needed

[Sunisshining12]

Hi, my LO is 4 weeks old. She had a mild tongue tie cut on Day 10. Feeding then went well for a week.

However, the feeding past week has been really painful & getting worse with each feed. She basically crunches on my nipple, it comes out pinched & really painful after a feed.

I've had her latch & positioning checked by 3 midwives & 4 bf support workers & a lactation consultant at home! They've all said it looks fine. We've practiced loads of positions & techniques.

When she feeds she spends a long time at the Breast can be 1 hour, some of this is feeding but some is just sucking (chomping) & sleeping. She always falls asleep eventually. She sometimes whines as well as if distressed. Once asleep I burp her put her down but she wakes within the next hour for another feed!

She has a lip tie & has had the tongue tie cut.

I really don't want to give up BF but I'm sitting here in tears with sore pinched nipples & wondering where to go from here.

She does have wet & dirty nappies & has gained some weight.

Hope someone can help me out :-(

[amysmummy12345]

Sounds like she's got your nipple against the hard palate, I've never gone by how a latch looks but how it feels. Google flipple for a way to get a deeper latch.
I've never used nipple shields but they might offer some relief? Although they can reduce supply sometimes I think.

[CelticPromise]

That sounds tough. Clearly there is something wrong if you are in pain. When was the latch last checked? Sometimes it's worth going a bit back to basics with latch and concentrating really hard on it every feed, taking baby off and starting again if any pain, to try to get back in good habits again. If you've a bf support group nearby go along. It also might be worth trying exaggerated latch/flipple (Google should find you some videos) to ensure a good mouthful of breast. Are the long feeds and frequent wakings 24/7?

[CelticPromise]

Also, don't be afraid to take her off if she's not actually feeding.

[Sunisshining12]

Thanks, latch last checked yesterday! Tried the flipper. She has plenty of breast tissue in but It's as if either the nipple can't get to the soft palette or my LO doesn't know how to suck, she just chomps. Just can't figure out why?

I have another BF group Tuesday but that seems ages away especially when my nipples are so pinched & I dread every feed 😢

[TupperwareTat]

Are you starting at her nose in line with your nipple? (Known as nose to nipple) and letting her find the nipple herself by her lifting her head up?

I could only manage BF comfortably laying in bed on my side.

[dylsmimi]

has her tongue tie been re-checked? When the hospital did ds they said they thought they had it but it can reform and just to go back again. As yours has been done it may now being dismissed - maybe have it rechecked
Can you express for a feed or 2 and offer a bottle to give your nipples a break?

[ifyouthinkiwillsleepyoudream]

Oh OP I am sorry to hear that, it sounds tough! We also had tongue tie and issues with painful breastfeeding during the first weeks. I was in tears for a while!

I think it was at least 5-6 weeks before there was any improvement, also cause by the time LO learned to suck properly, my nipples were so cracked already. I tried wearing silver nursing cups in between feeds and it helped me tremendously in the healing process. Much more than creams. I think there was improvement within days, if memory serves.
Amazon sells them. They are not cheap but for me, worth it.

Oh and feeding every hour or so is normal I think at that age. Doesn't necessarily mean baby isn't feeding well...

[Mysterycat23]

Once you sense baby is no longer feeding, take her off. If she knew the comfort nursing was resulting in pain to you she wouldn't do it, but babies don't know these things! You're not harming her by denying her comfort nursing.

I was wary of dummies but couldn't stand the comfort nursing where I watched as my LO actually deliberately took a worse latch to stop the milk coming out. I used a dummy for comfort from 3 weeks, LO now 8 weeks and no issues with nipple confusion.

[Bue]

If it's really sore I'd give nipple shields a go for a bit, they were the only way I was able to carry on in the early weeks. The downside if that you eventually will have to wean her off them, which can take several days, but some people actually use them long term quite effectively.

As other have said have you tried plenty of different positions? Google laid back breastfeeding, this is a position my LC showed me that was more comfortable.

[McBaby]

Get the on hue checked again when it heals scar tissue can reform. Dd1 had to have it cut 3 times till we were sorted.

Also look in to cranial osteopathy she has be struggling to use her muscles die to tongue restriction which may need gentle massage to get it working again.

[Sunisshining12]

I've literally tried every position, and the latch technique has been checked.

I'm wondering if there is more to this now. Getting her tongue cut was a battle so god knows how hard it will be to get back on the waiting list.

They didn't cut her lip tie. Therefore she can't turn her top lip out like a fish.

Apparently lip ties don't need cutting.

I can only express about 1oz on total from both breasts in 1 hour.

She doesn't seem to suck a dummy or bottle, again it's chomping action. I'm so exhausted from it all I'm desperate for help. Been using the nipple shields tonight but she still manages to chomp/pinch my nipple with her gums which are pretty hard & painful!

[gg96cgp]

Hang in there with the nipples shields - I had similar issues with daughters tongue tie and the nipples shields really helped. Make sure you get a decent brand too. Started with boots own ones - very little help but then tried the medela ones, much better.

[AprilShowers16]

I used nipple shields for weeks with DS1, probably about 6-8 weeks in total. It was the only way I could handle feeding him. Gradually weaned him off them over a couple of weeks when we were both ready. Still breastfeeding now at 7 months. It's so hard in those early months, hang in their you are doing a great job. I also found expressing and giving DS a bottle a day to give me a break really helped me mentally. I started mix feeding at 11 weeks and it honestly saved my breastfeeding

[Sunisshining12]

Thanks mcbaby, was this because the tongue reattached? how did you know it needed re checking? Did you go private or NHS? I'm tempted to go private this time.

It just seems odd that my LO had a good latch & fed really well for a week after the cut but now the following week she's completely changed the way that she feeds & is full on chomping.

I appreciate the recommendations for nipple shields, I used them 24-7 prior to her tongue tie cut, they were great & saved my BF. But even with the shield on this time she can still pinch my nipple, not the ends of the nipppe but the thickest part where it joins the aereola ;-(

[CelticPromise]

Did they give you any ideas yesterday other than just saying ' latch looks OK '? If it hurts it is clearly not ok! Are any feeds shorter and more comfortable or is it like this every feed? How do you feel your letdown/flow is?

[McBaby]

The second time we had it cut is was due to the toe not being cut totally. The third time it healed and her tongue function got worse.

I went privately for all the operations as she wasn't diagnosed till 8 weeks and they wait was another 6 weeks, I couldn't handle the pain for that long.

If it was good for a week and got worse it sounds like it could have reattached I would find someone to check it. Have you got a local breastfeeding drop in with someone qualified to check?

[Bue]

A lot of babies with a TT also have a high palate, which can cause nipple trauma and pain and difficulty latching properly. I wonder if that issue might be involved here. DD had a high palate and it was several months before her latch really improved and BF was totally easy and comfortable.

[Sunisshining12]

Bye, yes the consultant said she has a high palette & quite a small mouth.

We went private & it turned out it hadn't been cut properly by the NHS dr so got cut again yesterday.

So she now definitely doesn't have a tongue tie anymore but the pain is still there ;-( It's mainly my left side, the right side is okay.

I've been watching lots of BF videos over the weekend & THINK one of the issues could be that her tongue doesn't come forward over her bottom gums before she latches on, therefore her gums are rubbing/crunching on my nipple.

How do I encourage her to bring her tongue down over her gums before latching? Ive tried putting nipple & finger there & dropping milk on to no avail.

The consultant also recommmended cradio osteo therapy (sp?) does anyone have any experience of this?

To those who's babies had posterior tongue tie, does the feeding ever get better? Or has she got bad habits now such as not bringing her tongue down?

I really want to continue BF but if it's likely to never improve due to her habits/high palette/whatever other reasons I'm considering just feeding from the one side that doesn't hurt anywhere near as much as the other.

Thanks for advice so far x

[ifyouthinkiwillsleepyoudream]

Hi OP, so glad the TT got sorted! It would take a few days at least I think for your nipples to heal and stop hurting and also for your LO to 'relearn' to suck, using their tongue. It didn't happen automatically with mine. But I think it should improve in a few days. Keeping fingers crossed for you

[Sunisshining12]

Do you think a dummy would help her learn to suck or bad idea?

[ifyouthinkiwillsleepyoudream]

Hmm possibly although I will let somebody else reply with more certainty as DS never took a dummy, just never liked it... it would have been easier if he had!

[AlfieTheRailwayCat]

Hey OP, my little one had a tongue tie that was at 5 and at 17 weeks. It took quite a long time for her latch to sort out. At least a couple of weeks. The best position for me was laid back as it allowed her to get a fuller mouthful of beast. I also used to feed her in the sling as it allowed her to be more upright and again get a better latch. We are still feeding at 8 months but it was a pretty hard slog to get here. It was very important to me so I kept going. Her latch is perfect now, I actually marvel at it sometimes because it was so rubbish to start with.

[CelticPromise]

Tongue ties can reattach, I wonder if that's what happened. Some mothers have success with mirroring expressions, so you stick your tongue out and try to get her to copy.

On the ' bad ' side I expect you've tried but do you put her in the same position as the good side? So if you have her in cross cradle on the good side you could try her in rugby hold on the other so she's in a similar position.

It's perfectly possible to feed from one breast if that's what you decide to do.

[Sunisshining12]

Wow Alfie I do envy you! I find it impossible to feed lying down & wouldn't even know where to begin feeding in a sling that sounds fab!

thanks Celtic - the LC seemed to think it wasn't cut far enough back the first time. I've tried rugby because logically that shouldn't hurt facing that way but it does!! I've started another thread asking about success following TT revision x

[AlfieTheRailwayCat]

Have you seen a lactation consultant? They can help with positions. For feeding in a sling can you find out where your local sling meet is? They will definitely be able to help you if you wanted to try that.