15 wo crying on breast

[flymo79]

My dd is 15 wo and mix fed. Last night she wouldn't go on the boob, she just cried and cried. So upsetting, had to give her bottles and pump. Not a good development. What can I do? Tried her again this morning when she was more calm but she only sucked for about three minutes then the same, crying and thrashing. She normally has two bfs at least in the day and two at night with three bottles, first thing, midday and at bedtime.

[tiktok]

Prob worth ringing a bf helpline and taking about this, flymo....but my thoughts based on the info in your post is that 4 x bf a day have not been sufficient to maintain a sufficient production and supply. It would be unusual for mixed feeding with this low level of breastfeeding starting so early on in life to permit continued breastfeeding - that's just biology and it's hard to fight it.

To retrieve the breastfeeding, you may need to take urgent action with an intense period of expressing to make the experience of bf better for your dd (by increasing supply), so she 'comes back' to it.

How does that sound?

[flymo79]

Thanks til tok. I don't (and never have) get very much when pumping, only about 20ml on one side and 40ml on other. I pump when she has morning and night bottles, bf her mid morning and mid afternoon. And until last night she was having two good feeds at night when my boobs feel full and she feeds for about an hour. Thanks for the advice re pumping, I am having to do this anyway as every time she now has a bottle I know I need to pump to keep at least some supply. I got about 100ml when I pumped last night when she refused. What do you suggest is 'intensive' pumping? Dd is now very active and interested in the world, sitting up and not easily preoccupied. She also doesn't nap for long, 30 mins max in day but usually goes down well at seven so I can pump then but have real difficulty in the day

[tiktok]

flymo, can I ask why you are pumping when you give formula? I mean apart from protecting your milk supply because she's having the bottles? I suppose I mean why are you giving formula? You're feeding in the most time-consuming way possible - formula, pumping and direct bf :(

Intensive pumping to 'save' the milk supply would mean every two to three hours on both sides.

For many women, pumping is never as effective as an effectively feeding baby - most women will not get a 'feeds worth' of milk from one pumping session (and 100 ml is prob rather less than your dd would get feeding direct) so overall, unless you pump frequently, you are not able to compensate for the use of formula and the overall consequence is a diminishing breastmilk supply....unless you take action :)

[flymo79]

Slow weight gain, started with one bottle in evening, then was told to add a bottle in morning due to no weight gain in two weeks, now has become another at lunchtime as dd was still hungry and crying after morning bfs. The whole process has made me very insecure about my supply anyway and I know it's all very inefficient and time consuming but was only way that resulted in dd gaining wait and getting some bm

[tiktok]

What are you doing with the expressed breastmilk, flymo? Is the baby getting it?

[flymo79]

Yes baby gets every ml!

[tiktok]

:) Good to hear!

I do think talking to a helpline would give you the chance to work out your next step. Seems crystal to me that the formula use has crept up and affected your breastmilk supply - but you can rescue it.

[flymo79]

Thanks tik tok

[Heatherbell1978]

My 12 wk old started doing this last week. Coincided with my boobs feeling a lot less engorged and my letdown calming down. Good for me but think he got a bit upset at not having immediate access to milk. He'll feed fine when he's sleepy, think he just can't be bothered fussing, so if I can I try and feed him when he's just woken but that doesn't always work with his schedule. What I have found is that when he's fussing, I put the dummy in so he calms down then just put him at my boob for a while, take the dummy out and he latches while he's still sucking. As soon as my letdown happens he's fine. We had a few very stressful days but now he just fusses occasionally.

[mrsmilkymoo]

My 15 week old had a couple of days at the weekend crying and pulling off the boob. She's back to normal again now but it was odd, as soon as the letdown happened she pulled off. She then had a fussy and clingy day yesterday but today is back to normal. Maybe yours will turn out to be a short lived phase too? I hope so!

[mamapow]

I don't know if this is a possibility but my 19 week old DS will occasionally become really fussy and upset breastfeeding because of teething. I thought it was quite early because it's been happening for over a month now but my health visitor said it was quite normal for the teeth to start moving down even if they won't actually appear for a while yet.

I think he finds the sucking motion a bit painful when his teeth/gums are hurting. I've found that putting some teething gel on his gums and then feeding again a couple of minutes later tends to work.

He is also mix-fed (varies between one or two bottles a day) and I haven't found that this has affected my supply, especially once feeding was well-established

[mamapow]

Also - it tends to come and go quite quickly, so can come on suddenly.

[rolypolydoll]

Was going to say teething too, both mine went through a phase of screaming at the breast around 3/4 months. Maybe worth trying some gel.

[flymo79]

Ah, teething eh??! She does have her fist jammed almost permanently in her mouth and drools for England! I think I have been quite lax with my supply, assuming all was well established and was fine etc, so perhaps need to coax it back with expressing AND take into account some of these other physiological possibilities. Was thinking of getting stocked up on the teething gel as her little friend who is two weeks older is in full teething misery. Such a relief to hear others have experienced this... Very difficult not to think it's the end of bf

[Heatherbell1978]

Funnily enough my LO constantly has his fists in his mouth and is soaking everything with dribble. After posting yesterday he has refused to feed this morning too, my usual dummy trick isn't working either. For me it isn't a supply issue though, just had to pump to relieve my boobs. He's gone down for a nap so I'm hoping he'll feed when he wakes...if only they could talk:-(

[mrsmilkymoo]

I wonder if teething is what has been affecting dd...she was drooling loads and also chews her fist the while time. not sure I like the thought of a tooth coming so early!

[tiktok]

Teething does seem to affect babies' feeding, but please don't assume you just have to wait and all will be well, flymo.

I do think you need to be proactive to rescue the breastfeeding.

[mamapow]

Yes same here - fist chewing and dribbling! He's become a little more dextrous as he's got older so we have a lot of finger chewing now. We still haven't got any teeth here (although you can see them!) so haven't had to deal with that and feeding yet... Calgel is my saviour!

[dorasee]

Could be:
teething
oral thrush (look for white palate)
undiagnosed tongue tie