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Tomm tipp prep machine UNSAFE says midwife

(56 Posts)
HeavenK76 Thu 24-Jul-14 15:13:09

Had my gorgeous little baby girl on Monday and came home on Tuesday from hospital.
Midwife came next day and while talking about bottle feeding, as I'm ff my lo, she says we midwives DON'T recommend the perfect prep as it's not the way the feeds should be made up, the feeds are not sterile.
Also when my HV came with 38 weeks pregnancy she said they don't want people to use this machine.
What's the fuss about this. Why are they saying all this.
IMO if there was anything wrong with it or against the guidelines, Tom Tip would not be allowed to bring this out in the market first place.

Anyway, have others been told things like this before and what is your opinion on this.

OP’s posts: |
Hobby2014 Thu 24-Jul-14 15:15:53

Sorry no advice but watching with interest.

scandichick Thu 24-Jul-14 15:17:59

Don't know anything about this appliance in particular, but unfortunately plenty of things that are contrary to official guidelines are marketed as suitable for babies anyway.

I.e. cot bumpers, pillows for babies <6 months, baby carriers that at bad for their hips, etc.

fledermaus Thu 24-Jul-14 15:20:23

Lots of companies manufacture things that are against the guidelines - baby food from 4 months for one!

I don't know if it is safe or not, but I haven't seen any evidence that this method of making up formula (e.g. dissolving 7 scoops of powder in 2oz hot water instead of 7oz) is safe/as safe as doing it the proper way.

ouryve Thu 24-Jul-14 15:22:21

I don't know much about these machines (other than they're extortionately expensive for what they are) but it appears that they heat a bit of water to mix with the milk powder, then ad cold (not previously boiled) water. It has a water filter, but that does nothing to sterilise the water.

ouryve Thu 24-Jul-14 15:24:56

This babycentre thread is interesting - apparently TT claim that the filter removes bacteria.

I'd love to see the figures on that.

fledermaus Thu 24-Jul-14 15:32:14

I probably wouldn't worry about the tap water, because water is pretty safe in this country. I think any possible harm would come from the small amount of hot water used being insufficient to sterilise a large amount of powder.

MotherOfInsomniacToddlers Thu 24-Jul-14 15:34:34

My friend was raving about this so I read about it and no I don't think it sounds safe, i wouldn't trust it

ShergarAndSpies Thu 24-Jul-14 15:34:49

I think that for people to individually decide whether they think machines such as these are safe enough to use, it's worth making sure you really understand the biochemistry behind the guidelines.

Apols to those who already know all this.

- formula powder is not sterile. It contains a rather terrifying amount of different bacterias some if which can be really rather nasty.
All formulas do (except ready made cartons). It's just how they are produced.

- heating milk powder to a high temperature will kill the bugs. Ideally you would add properly boiling water to the milk powder - if your sole concern was killing bacteria. This will kill off most of them.

- But boiling the milk powder will also damage all the little protein chains that make up the milk itself, therefore making it less nutritious for the baby to consume. If your sole concern was keeping the milk undamaged, you wouldn't heat it at all.

- the ideal compromise therefore is to boil water, allow it to cool to 70degrees and then add the milk powder. This gives you the best balance of bug killing / protecting the milk itself.

- in the UK, our water meets pretty high safety and cleanliness requirements but I would always use cooled boiled water under 6months just in case.

- for speed feeding. It's possible to add the powder to a smaller amount of 70degree cooled boiled water and then top up to the correct amount with cooled boiled water from the fridge to end up with body temp milk. You'll have to play about with ratios of 70degree / fridge to find the right amounts.

- remember that warm milk is a monster breeding ground for all those little bugs that survived the mixing process. With heat and sugar from the milk they can develop and increase very fast. Hence why fast cooling of any bottles not used immediately is so important.

fledermaus Thu 24-Jul-14 15:42:02

- for speed feeding. It's possible to add the powder to a smaller amount of 70degree cooled boiled water and then top up to the correct amount with cooled boiled water from the fridge to end up with body temp milk. You'll have to play about with ratios of 70degree / fridge to find the right amounts.

When you say this is possible, is there a particular ratio of water to milk powder than is definitely "safe" in destroying the bacteria?

trinitybleu Thu 24-Jul-14 15:42:26

My DSis has one and I can't see how it can be as safe as the official guidelines. She also says the instructions say you can safely make the bottle up and then keep it warm for a couple of hours, which seems like madness to me.

ShergarAndSpies Thu 24-Jul-14 15:50:34

Fledermaus - as long as there was enough 70degree water to dissolve all the milk powder then it would be fine.

It's not about quantity if water, it's about temp. And although the temp will drop a tiny amount through dissolving the milk, it will only be by a degree or two and so will not cause a problem.

It's worth buying a decent thermometer so you can tell how long approx your kettle takes to cool down to 70degrees. Obviously you'll need to keep the same amount of water in it each time as smaller volumes of water will cool quicker.

Pouring the boiled water into an empty sterile bottle will also help it cool faster as kettles are designed to be insulating.

HeavenK76 Thu 24-Jul-14 17:09:33

That's what I was thinking, to get a food thermometer and measure the temp of the water you put in the bottle and just add formula. Then cool down and feed baby.
Just don't know what to do as making up feeds freshly is really tough at night time.
Sounds ideal this machine but I don't want to take the risk now. sad

OP’s posts: |
fledermaus Thu 24-Jul-14 17:11:34

You can make up feeds in advance with 70c water, cool quickly and store in the fridge. I make one feed ahead.

Trapper Thu 24-Jul-14 17:14:08

Our Health Visitor told us we should not use any kind of ointment on chapped nipples and that they should be left to heal themselves. She also said we should not use our Medula pump and should express by hand instead.

We decided to ignore her advice.

MorphineDreams Thu 24-Jul-14 17:16:50

You can make up feeds in advance with 70c water, cool quickly and store in the fridge. I make one feed ahead

I thought you weren't supposed to do this.

fledermaus Thu 24-Jul-14 17:18:51

WHO/NHS advice is - making each feed fresh to be consumed immediately is best. If you need to make feeds in advance, do as you would fresh (70c water) cool quickly and store in the back of the fridge for no more than 24 hours.

MorphineDreams Thu 24-Jul-14 17:22:02

ah thankyou

Coachbuiltprammama Thu 24-Jul-14 17:36:44

I love it when people harp on and on and on and on.. about bacteria, The bottles are sterilized the water is clean and boiled and once the teat and cap are on it is sealed and can be refrigerated and formula is made in factories to strict guidelines and is sterile before being air sealed in a sterile container take about over protection ! its hard enough have a newborn without going into hysterics about a pre prepared bottle of formula that was made in a clean environment (presumably) going from the fridge into a babies mouth without heating or making it from scratch etc i could understand if this was Africa and bottles were being washed in a river with water from a well but it isn't. OP these machines seem to be one of those things you buy for a PFB that isn't necessary but it wont kill your baby HV's change their minds about stuff all the time mine used to say one thing one visit and contradict herself the next visit just offer your HV tea pretend to listen to her "theories" and get her out asap grin its what i did and mine are all fine a mother knows best

frolicsandfiddledeedees Thu 24-Jul-14 17:38:04

Formula powder is not sterile and it's not made in a sterile environment!

MorphineDreams Thu 24-Jul-14 17:39:45

We have guidelines for a reason though. It's all well and good to say 'mother knows best', tell that to the mother on a programme not long ago who was leaving bottles for hours and them giving them to her baby. This was in the UK. It's not worth taking the risk with babies.

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 24-Jul-14 17:43:48

Filters remove lime scale and sand particles etc don't they? How could it remove microscopic organisms that can only be killed by heat or freezing or chemicals?

Coachbuiltprammama Thu 24-Jul-14 17:46:03 oh yes because it's made in the most awful condition's hmm go sterilize your house some more love and take a chill pill.

MorphineDreams Thu 24-Jul-14 17:49:26

Looking clean doesn't mean sterile.

A hospital can look clean but unless sterile antigens can be all over the place.

MorphineDreams Thu 24-Jul-14 17:49:44

should be a comma between sterile and antigens

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