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might need a little hand hold - think 10 day old ds2 has chosen artificial teats over breast - knew it was a risk but feel really sad......

(28 Posts)
MrsMc82 Mon 23-Sep-13 05:44:57

Been mix feeding for a week as started ds on formula after my section because I assumed we'd be ff as failed to bf ds1at all due to my crap flat/inverted nipples and I thought I wouldn't be able to feed this time either band due to gestational diabetes ds2 had low blood sugars for s while and needed feeding asap.... I was keen to do any bf at all so had the midwife help and eventually last Sunday we got latched and did our first ever feed and I was delighted - I said all along that id be delighted to do just one breast feed so felt so bloody proud....

So for last week we've been successfully mixed feeding offering and taking a good feed and then topping up with a few oz of ff and I love it its such a wonderful feeling to feed my son myself....

But at 10 last night and just now ds has got really upset when offered the boob tried for nearly an hour to get him latched properly and only managed a little feed by giving him a bit of formula first to take the edge off the hunger and then he would only latch for few sucks a minute at most and then get very upset again -tried different holds to see if it was cos he was uncomfy, winding to make sure that wasn't why he'd not latch same just happened, in the end I got about a ten minute feed into him with the usual few oz top up and he slept till half 4 but it was v upsetting to feel like i was forcing the breast onto him when really he just wants the bottle - I know that this was likely to happen as he doesn't have to work as hard for a ff but decided to not give up on the mixed feeding just see what he was like for the next few feed.... just had the same performance again at 4.30am but decided to just give him the formula after 15mins or so and if course he toook it straight away but I am very sad to not have given him a bf.......

4 in the morning isn't the best time to be making decisions but im pretty sure weve had our time with bfing - dh saying all the right things and reminding me that I have got so much further than I ever dreamed I would to do over a week of bfing and that uf ds has decided to prefer the bottle that can't be helped but I just feel sad (doing big snotty weeping as I type this in fact! )......

you think that I might be able to keep doing say one feed a day? Maybe at a time when he's not starving - will be up to get ds1 to nursery soon so it'll only be a couple of hours before the next feed.....

bshorty Tue 24-Sep-13 22:12:41

I would wait 45 mins- a hour before pumping to get a good amount and pump at least every 3 hours. looking at photos of Baby can help too. when i had problems latching baby on i stripped my top off and stripped baby off for skin to skin and it worked like a magnet. hope this helps

AintNobodyGotTimeFurThat Tue 24-Sep-13 21:11:22

You'll have got less as DS drank more, no doubt. Especially if you expressed within an hour of him having the breast.

I found this happened too as I have been mixed feeding DD since she was 7 days old, so really do feel for you there. She wasn't putting on enough weight and latch was not always quite right. We both tried but think due to shock of c section amongst other things, it all got very confused.

I was lucky as she always wanted the breast more than the bottle, but she'd be really awkward and pully and it would take 15 minutes or so to get her to take the breast. Then we went away at about 3 months and she just magically almost began to accept it properly. Before then I was trying the boob 3 or 4 times a day and was pumping 4 or 5 times a day, to keep supply up.

Sometimes I get more on the boob than other times. Most I ever got was 7 1/2oz between the two, least has been 1oz. I tend to get less in the evening, but most woman do as supply is lower between 6pm ish until midnightish. It's the most productive at around 4am apparently, which is why I now completely breastfeed DD during the night. She is 6 months this Saturday. So from 12 til about 10/11 in the morning she has breast and then has a mix of formula and breast milk bottles during the day. Sometimes having a breast feed during the day too if she fancies one.

It's amazing how things can turn around. I was so scared she would go off the breast too, I really was. I think a bit of hard work on both sides helps a lot! She wakes me up now tugging on my breast at night to wake me up!

MrsMc82 Tue 24-Sep-13 21:11:17

Thanks both....

So i need to keep on with the plan from the midwife yest.... both boobs then top up as we have been doing then express after each feed..... offer formula first if ds not calm......andbe patient because the increase in supply will take a while. ...

I think Im over thinking this but there's so much advice out there and I lurch between what is best to listen to each time I read something else. .....

Other thing that made me worry about the supply dwelling is that my boobs have gone all soft since yests expressing...... should I be concerned about that?

tiktok Tue 24-Sep-13 20:55:59

MrsMc do what the midwife suggested you do - she understood that you may need to give formula while you work on building up your supply.

With a good supply, you won't distress your baby by withdrawing the formula.

MrsMc82 Tue 24-Sep-13 20:51:24

orange ' is that even possible? I was of the understand that because ds has had top up since birth itd be really bad for him to take it away. ..... is that not the case? Wouldn't it be really distressing?

tiktok Tue 24-Sep-13 20:35:40

Should add - its prob too soon to stop expressing.

tiktok Tue 24-Sep-13 20:34:58

orange is right - you (probably) cannot fine tune a supply to produce 'just enough to allow me to mix feed' at this early stage. Trying to do this is fighting with your physiology. Best to get a full supply and then cut back if you are keen to keep some formula. Don't judge supply by what you can express, by the way - it's v. misleading! Glad you got help from LLL.

orangepudding Tue 24-Sep-13 18:36:00

MrsMc82 - sounds like it's going well. I understand you want to continue with the mixed feeding but it would probably but could you stop expressing and topping up for a while to get breast feeding properly established and then reintroduce the bottle?

MrsMc82 Tue 24-Sep-13 18:29:40

should have added that la leche leader suggested that I pump every hour - im not quite sure I have the tenacity to do that......

MrsMc82 Tue 24-Sep-13 18:27:22

Today has been much less successful as far as expressing is concerned - have expressed each feed but got about 2oz out in total - is that normal or does it mean that my supply is dwindling?But been a good day as far as ds latching, managed some reasonable feeds where ds latched for 10 to 15 mins before his top up.....Am I right in thinking that if I want to maintain the mixed feeding I still need to express after every feed?Spoken to a super la leche leader who pointed me in the direction of some great resources anf really explained the way breast milk is produced..... but I also think she might have thought that I want to drop the top up when I think I actually just want to maintain what we're doing for a while if I can as opposed to totally phasing out the mixed feeding..... I should have explained more clearly to her but there was a lot of information to take in.....

plummyjam Mon 23-Sep-13 22:10:15

Even if I express first thing in the morning, I never manage more than 3oz. Sounds like you've got a good supply!

tiktok Mon 23-Sep-13 17:48:40

MrsMc it sounds as if you have a really helpful and knowledgable midwife - that will help a lot.

Your bf group will also help.

Then there are helplines to call.

What has happened to you is in fact what happens when bf is mixed with ff at the start - bf needs total focus to get the production line underway, and while a few mothers would get away with what you did, most of us would not. It's just biology smile Top ups of formula from every/most feed, even a few ounces, are sending 'stop making milk' messages to the body. This has happened, but the good news is it is reversible, as long as you work hard at removing milk (either with the pump or via the baby and preferably both) . Your midwife's plan to keep your baby happy with a little formula is a good one - your baby needs to come to the breast happily and with no struggle, while you are building up your supply. Then when you are more confident in your supply you can reduce the formula even more.

Good luck smile

MrsMc82 Mon 23-Sep-13 17:17:16

also going to a la leche drop in on Weds to see if can get a better latch with the nipple sheild.....

MrsMc82 Mon 23-Sep-13 17:16:22

hello all, just a little update got some really good support from the midwife, she said that we're probably right in thinking that ds is getting a bit lazy with the boob but that all is not lost and that its ok if ds is waking up ravenous but not latching to offer a little formula to calm hm down and then get him latched on.... or i need be give formula first and have boob as 'pudding'.....we sort of did this at 10pm last night but I was worried that if i don offer boob first then it will "ruin" everything and I'd have to give up bfing.....

but so far today not needed to do offer bottle first an he has fed at 12.30 and 3.30 and had about 10 or 15 mins of breastfeeding each time, with no crying and then the usual few oz of formula after so hv got some reasonable feeds in today so feeling better....

also midwife helped me get to grips with the manual breast pump and pumped at half 4 getting 6oz off - never expected to get that much!!! just called the as not quite sure what to do with it all so plan to offer the boob at the next feed first and then top up with about 3oz of the ebm after rather than formula, and express again after that feed too she explained that I might not get that much off next time I express so not to panic if I only get a couple of oz expressed......

thanks for helping me not give up......

pudtat Mon 23-Sep-13 09:14:01

Test : teat

pudtat Mon 23-Sep-13 09:13:31

Hope you get some good support on feeding board when moved and in RL, but one thing you could try is cup feeding the formula. Gets it into him but without such chance of him deciding he prefers bottle test to boob. We did this for 6 wks with DS, before introducing a bottle - had to mix feed due to supply issues. Still feeding at six months so can be done! Good luck!

LillyofWinchester Mon 23-Sep-13 08:48:33

Well done both of you! Found this, might help

Also if there is a big break in him feeding from the breast it might be good to express, either by hand or pump, to maintain your supply. Hope it all goes well.

MrsMc82 Mon 23-Sep-13 08:46:23

Thanks again for the hands and encouragement - he's latched as I speak just done 5 minutes on one side and and a couple on the other so far so not much but no crying from either of us so far.....

LillyofWinchester Mon 23-Sep-13 08:42:17

Hope the midwife is supportive, keep trying like bouncey said.

bouncysmiley Mon 23-Sep-13 08:03:12

Call your breast feeding councellor for support. You can bring it back. Keep trying.

MrsMc82 Mon 23-Sep-13 07:55:13

Thanks all for the replies...

reported to ask for it to be moved.....

got midwife coming this morning.....

LillyofWinchester Mon 23-Sep-13 06:44:26

If you report your original post mumsnet can move this thread into the feeding section

BaldHedgehog Mon 23-Sep-13 06:19:41

Please post in breast feeding/formula feeding section, there's lots of helpful ladies there, you don't have to give up breast feeding yet

leonardofquirm Mon 23-Sep-13 06:19:22

Also the helplines as suggested, good luck OP. Hope you feel a wee bit better in the morning.

leonardofquirm Mon 23-Sep-13 06:18:14

I would repost in the bf and FF section, giving details of how much FF he has how often etc and as mentioned above you should get some expert help. smile

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