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Sicky breastfed 4 week old

(26 Posts)
Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 15:55:58

My dd is 4 weeks old and keeps being sick after every feed. She feeds constantlly through the day and only sleeps twice in the day and cluster feeds morning and evening. It's exhausting. After feeding for four to five hours I ask dh to top her up with formula or ebm if I've got it but then she still wants to go on the breast. She's not very settled so there's no chance she will sleep in her Moses. She extremly windy, farts all the time does massive burps. She had tongue tie snipped, latch is great apparently. Called all helplines but nothing I haven't heard before. Went to osteopath yesterday as that helped my dd1 who was also breastfed. But that hasn't really helped dd2 apart from make her sleep ages yesterday afternoon. Worst £40 I ever spent lol. What am I doing wrong. All this feeding is exhausting, close to giving up tbh. I can't even put dd1 to bed or wake up with her which really makes me very sad. I really don't know what to do.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:02:15

Cupcake, this sounds very much like tongue tie. Is there a bfing support group near to you that you could contact? I think it might be worth getting Lo checked again. A local BFC might also be able to help you with the latch, have a google of biological nursing too.

If Lo won't settle for you to have time with dd, will she settle for a while in a sling?

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 16:15:25

I'm actually going to check her tongue tie again next week by the lady that did it. Although when I spoke to her she said she couldn't see how dd could possibly still have tongue tie. All the midwives and hv don't want to question the lady that did the tongue tie as apparently she's "the best." But I thought sod it i will make an appointment again anyway. I know this lady will just laugh at me and probably say " u stupid girl what r u doing here?" Lol I think it's my right as a mother to get things double checked if anything just for piece of mind and to cover all bases. She said I might have a hind milk/fore milk I'm balance which I don't really think I do. The being sick after every feed is really horrible to a) see and b) seems like such a waste. All the feeding and then she is sick, then wants more. It's really exhausting and I just think if she is still hungry then why don't I just give her formula. All my dh family say why breastfeed, just give her a bottle. They think I'm some sort of hippy for breastfeeding. U can't win if u do and u can't win if u don't!!

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 20:26:40

I really don't know what to do now. She has been crying all day on the breast and bottle. Hasn't really slept, just feeding/crying all the time. I'm exhausted and so upset that I can't settle my baby.

Noodled Fri 15-Mar-13 20:34:52

have you tried a sling, the stretchy wrap type are great for babies and often they sleep so much better in them. maybe worth a get your arms back toosmile

I would get the tt checked again, they can reattach or not be snipped enough so am surprised your snipper wasn't more open to checking. Call the bf hotlines and have a chat with someothers who might have some ideas too. what are nappies and weight gain like?

mostly remember you are only on week 4, it will get easier...

Harvey Karp has some you tube links on getting a baby to settle that work well on most babies.

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 20:56:22

She isn't very settled in the sling, she just tries to find a breast. Her poo was slightly green this evening which has made me a little worried. Hv told me not to worry as she is gaining lots and lots of weight. To lady said I might have a fore milk/ hind milk imbalance but I don't think I do and dd is normally on one breast for at least an hour then I swap her to the other one. She is just so windy and in so much pain. It's horrible to see. I'm tempted to express and give her bottles and see if that helps. Or maybe it's my milk? Or perhaps it's the way I latch her on, it might l

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 20:56:59

Oh Cupcake. That sounds bloody awful, poor you. Definitely a good idea to get her TT checked again.

How are her nappies? Do you feel like you have a lot of milk? If you have a bit of an oversupply she could be getting more foremilk, especially if you are switching between breasts frequently.

It also could be a growth spurt which is common at four weeks ish, very hard going but don't last long usually.

A sling might help if it's just closeness she needs.

Have you tried <whispers> a dummy?

Take it one feed at a time. Hope it gets better.

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 20:59:43

Ah x post. An hour is a very long time to feed on one breast and a sign she might not be feeding effectively, so that might be the TT or a latch issue. I know you've had her latch checked but have you had a whole feed observed? Might be worth trying to go to a group for this.

Green poo could be formula, TT or foremilk, or nothing at all.

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:01:03

(Sorry, pressed wrong button).
Latch might look ok but I could b latching her on badly.
I do have a lot of milk. That's why I feel it would b a shame to stop bf but if I just can't latch her on right or she is getting windy because of something I'm doing then....... I'm not sure. Also tried a dummy. In fact I actually have bought 4 different types lol but nothing has worked.
She just wants to feed and feed and b sick and windy sad

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 21:01:54

Also maybe ask about reflux?

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:03:40

She didnt have any formula today and I've been to so many groups and everytime I feed her she feeds well and falls asleep, typical lol.

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:05:07

She does feed very well in the middle of the night feeds.v strange

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 21:05:32

Hmmm it's really hard without seeing her feed but if she's not latching well, or starting well but then slipping, I reckon going to a BF group and working on latch could make a big difference. If she can feed more effectively feeds should be a lot shorter.

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:06:35

What exactly is reflux and the symptoms? Can anything b done about it? I've never come across reflux before. But I've been looking it up and can't quite find a definite answer.

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 21:06:42

Is it a certain time of day she feeds a lot?

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 21:09:35

I'm not an expert (am a peer supporter so had some training but not loads!) so I don't want to spout half remembered info. A reliable website for info on all things BF related is so that might be worth a look.

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:09:41

All day apart from nap times ;) which today has been nothing sad and in the middle of the night she does short feeds but seems very settled.

scoobydooagain Fri 15-Mar-13 21:10:10

maybe try co-lief and reduce milk in your diet if you are taking alot, try a wee bit baby massage too, worth a go. It does get easier

kernowmissvyghen Fri 15-Mar-13 21:13:26

Wind, unsettled, feeds more than any other infant anyone knows, cries a lot, sick a LOT- yep, I know your pain!

My DS was exactly as you describe: his body was / is unable to cope with the proteins in cows milk. It is fairly common, and different to lactose intolerance . DS was breastfed and never had formula, but the proteins came through my milk from my diet. ( this is less usual, we wee unlucky!)

With my DS, the cows milk protein intolerance (cmpi) gave him reflux, he was copiously sick ALL the time, and basically screamed whenever he wasn't being fed. And he fed near continuously, 24hrs a day, or so it felt...

( I was told months later that the breastmilk acts like a mild antacid so they want to feed all the time to stop the pain from the acid in their throats / stomachs.)

It was utter, utter hell, I do feel for you. The health visitor eventually referred us to a paediatric dietician and we were sorted out but only after 5 months of non-sleeping, screaming, vomit-covered inconsolable hell.

Maybe suggest to your HV or GP that your DD might have reflux, and what do they think about the possibility of her having a problem with cows milk? We were fobbed of for months with "yes, yes, all babies posset, it isn't as bad as you think, all babies fuss," etc but we were listened to in the end.

Assuming you intend to keep breastfeeding: it is actually pretty easy to cut cows milk products out of your diet, takes a bit of getting used to and you need to avoid "hidden" dairy such as whey powder in packet foods, and start eating things like hummus to keep up your calcium intake, but it is ok! Do seek advice from a health professional, though, as its a bad idea to cut out while food groups without proper medical guidance.

The bottle-feeding alternative for CMPI babies is a special formula that can only be bought on prescription (and I gather tastes unspeakably vile) so if you decide to switch to formula, maybe speak to your gp?

There is an "allergies" board on here that has lots of knowledgeable people on it if your DD has CMPI. I lurked there a lot when my DS was tiny.

This is very rambling sorry, but hope it makes some sense... You aren't alone in your suffering!

CelticPromise Fri 15-Mar-13 21:13:39

That sounds very tough. Am pretty sure it's nothing you're doing wrong, sounds like you're doing brilliantly in quite hard circumstances.

Can you feed her in a sling so you can at least get on with things?

OddFrog Fri 15-Mar-13 21:28:27

I have a lot of milk too. Have you thought about oversupply? Baby gets a lot of 'fore' milk, which is more sugary than fatty - if I understand it correctly. They can digest all the sugar and it makes them windy, green frothy poo and lots of it, crampy tummy... So you get unhappy baby looking for comfort and so you offer the nipple, etc. bit of a vicious circle. There's also the four week growth spurt, so baby's hungry too.

We are at 13 weeks and managing much better now.

Express before each feed to reduce the fore milk. This should give baby a fattier, more filling feed that's easier to digest.

Block feed: two or three feeds on the same breast before you swap. Any you express off the other side to ease engorgement can be kept for dp to offer later maybe?

Try a Dummy for comfort sucking, rather than breast.

Burp really thoroughly, a few minutes after starting a feed. If there's a trapped bubble early on, the whole of the rest of the feed comes up with it!

Try feeding in upright positions or with baby on top of you while lying flat. This slows the flow and so baby doesn't have to guzzle it down with gulps of air. Keep upright for a while after each feed

Hope you find a way that works for you. Keep at it! I can recommend "the womanly art of breast feeding" book for good sound advice. Sounds a bit hippy, but it's my go-to guide just now! Sorry for the essay.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 15-Mar-13 21:56:27

Did you manage to call one of the bfing lines?

Cupcakemummy85 Fri 15-Mar-13 23:00:24

kernowmissvyghen, that is exactly how my dd is. I tried cutting dairy out today and did horribly. I will really try tomorrow to do better. My dh says we should just go to formula because its taking up all of my time and we have another dd1 to think about. This is so upsetting for me. I feel like I have failed.
I unfortunately haven't had a minute to myself to call the bf helpline.

kernowmissvyghen Sat 16-Mar-13 00:19:03

No, you haven't failed! It is so incredibly relentless, exhausting, and demoralising to deal with - merely surviving is a huge success! And you have managed to keep your DD well nourished and gaining weight in the face of severe difficulty- a lot of people in your situation (including a friend of mine) end us with a baby suffering failure to thrive. You are doing a great job in the face of serious problems.

If you can get yourself to the GP on Monday, there is medicine that can help to control the reflux and lessen the pain for your DD. they will probably start her on infant gaviscon, but there are other things they will give her if that doesn't help. It's also probably worth asking if she can be referred to a pediatric dietician, because the wait time can be q long so it's worth getting on the list as soon as you can.

All the health care people should support you to continue breastfeeding if that is your choice. You might need to keep repeating that you intend to bf though, my HV kept assuming i wanted to be prescribed formula which got a bit confusing at times...

If your DD has cmpi, normal formula will sadly make things worse. Sorry.

With the dairy free diet thing, I found it took about 4 weeks of a proper dairy and soya free diet to see an improvement. Their gut lining gets damaged and needs time to heal.

I got a big sheet of non-dairy substitutes from the dietician, which was really useful. Mainly I use koko coconut milk substitute, and use it exactly like milk in drinks, cooking, etc. (you will find it in tescos). Oatly do a good cream substitute, and Pure margarine is dairy free.

Hang in there! You are doing an amazing job.

kernowmissvyghen Sat 16-Mar-13 00:28:44

Just read that back and think I was a bit negative re the time needed for a dairy free diet to have effect- what I meant was, it took about 4 weeks for us to be able to sit back and say, yes, things are a lot better now and DS is almost like a "normal" child! Improvement was incremental of course, so thing did get easier more rapidly than 4 weeks. Was from a pretty rock-bottom place though...

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