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Posterior tongue tie/lip tie - any experiences? Especially if you had it cut at 2-4 months old

(37 Posts)
minipie Mon 04-Feb-13 15:57:40

Hi, my DD has just been diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie (her upper lip is always curled in rather than out due to this). DD is 14 weeks, though was 6 weeks prem and tube fed for the first 3 weeks, so only been BFing for 11 weeks, if that makes sense.

I'm worried it's now so late for the TT correction that it won't make much difference or could even make feeding more difficult for DD because she would have to relearn how to feed with her 'new' tongue (though it's clearly pretty hard for her at the moment poor thing, she takes in loads of air and tires quickly, plus it's sore for me too).

I'm also looking into getting the TT snipped, but am finding it harder to find someone who will address the lip tie, it seems these are usually left untreated in th UK for some reason.

Has anyone had a posterior TT snipped this late? How did it go, did it improve BFing for you - and if so, how quickly?

If your DC also had a lip tie - did you get it cut (if so where) and if not, did you find BFing was still difficult after the TT was cut?

Thank you!

McBaby Mon 04-Feb-13 16:28:22

Posterior tongue tie here which last cut at 14 weeks. Breast feeding has improved but not perfect as I suspect there is some scar tissue back again! Defiantly was worth having it done as feeding now just incomfortable and her weight gain has settled down as it was starting to drop off a bit. I was also crying through every feed!

MoreSnowPlease Mon 04-Feb-13 16:35:08 boy is 7.5 months and has both posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie. He had his tongue tie cut at 4 weeks because of massive amounts of pain for me and his inability to latch, so it was earlier than you, but it did make a big difference, my pain didn't clear up until he was 3 months old because of the damage he had done chomping away.I was told that the posterior ties are often worse in terms of mums pain.

It has definitely helped us go longer, but now he has teeth top and bottom, the upper lip tie is causing problems as well. I haven't had this dealt with and not sure how to go about it. I was advised to see Ann Dobson in London, I have heard good things about her with regards to tongue tie issues and the things that go with them so she may be able to help you, but you have to pay. I haven't seen her yet as my boy is quite old and I'm not sure if it's worth it at this stage.

BuntyCollocks Mon 04-Feb-13 18:58:15

Where are you based? My dd had a Ptt and both my children have a lip tie. DS had a 'normal' tongue tie.

Lip ties are generally corrected as the upper lip flange is not, according to the ibclc I saw, as important as the lower lip. The revision can cause a 'gummy' smile.

Both mine will have them snipped eventually as DS has a large gap in his front teeth and it looks like Dd will as well as the tie is identical.

North west, Patrick Sheehan at Manchester spire will revise both.

BuntyCollocks Mon 04-Feb-13 18:59:15

Generally not corrected

MakingAnotherList Mon 04-Feb-13 19:36:52

My DS has posterior tongue tie but not lip tie.
At about 4-6 weeks I remember crying with pain as one of my nipples was so sore.
I expressed milk and gave him a bottle for every other feed as he seemed better on one side.
He is now 15 months and I stopped feeding him 2 months ago. He takes a bottle really well and eats with no problems.
After those 2 weeks of agony it settled down. I started detaching him when I could feel it wasn't quite right and then letting him latch on again, but would "force" my nipple in quickly so that he couldn't clamp down too soon and hurt me.
I experienced pain a couple more times and would just give the painful side a "day off".
Night feeds took ages and that was why I switched to bottles in the end. I was missing time with my girls as I'd be stuck feeding DS for up to 2 hours.
His tongue tie is quite severe. He can't even get close to sticking his tongue out. The tip stays behind his teeth.
I'm expecting him to need it corrected to help with his speech but I read that children quite often need further surgery to help with speech after a simple snip as an infant so I chose not to go down that route when he was a baby.

MakingAnotherList Mon 04-Feb-13 19:38:45

Sorry, to clarify I only expressed alternate feeds for a few days to let my nipple heal, not from 4-6 weeks until I stopped feeding him.

MakingAnotherList Mon 04-Feb-13 19:40:40

Oops, looks like I forgot my punctuation for that final sentence blush

minipie Mon 04-Feb-13 20:18:00

Thanks everyone. Sounds like the cut does produce improvement but perhaps not for a bit and not perfect...and might not last... Argh.

Bunty I am London based. I've had Mr Patel at kings recommended for the tongue tie but he doesn't do lip tie.

Interesting that the upper lip flange isn't seen as important. I'm sure I can feel DDs upper lip digging into me, however that may be because she is chomping, rather than because of the lip tie. I didn't know that cutting it would affect her smile though. Wouldn't want that. However if it's that or a gappy smile if it is left uncut, I guess it's swings and roundabouts.

My DD actually can move her tongue a lot at the front, she sticks it out all the time! (Part of the reason why the TT has only just been found). Seems like the restricted bit is further back.

MakingAnother I am doing the "squish as much nipple as possible in" thing and it does help with the pain.

Any more experiences both positive and negative v welcome.

melonribena Mon 04-Feb-13 21:34:30

My baby has both posterior tt and lip tie. He had it snipped twice at 6 weeks and 9 weeks. I then had complete pain free feeding from weeks 10-14. This was bliss in comparison to the agony before!
However, gradually the pain crept back and although ds is now 6 mths old feeding is still 'uncomfortable' sometimes pain free and sometimes agony! It is much improved from the start though.
It was snipped privately but not due to his age we are on the waiting list for the nhs. It's been two months do far but I'm determined to get it sorted.
The pain for me is one thing but I'm worried about gappy teeth, problems with solids and speech.
It's nice to hear that others have had similar issues even if I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
I hope every gets sorted and I wish GPS knew more about it

minipie Mon 04-Feb-13 22:13:13

Thanks melonribena - sorry to hear you are having to wait. Did you have both the tongue tie and the lip tie cut? Do you think the pain is back because it has grown back?

melonribena Tue 05-Feb-13 11:57:31

Hi minipie,
I'm not sure if the pain is because its reattached but because the pain has returned in some capacity after a few pain free weeks I want to get it checked out.
It was only the tongue tie that was snipped, apparently they don't do lip ties? Although I've heard of them being snipped?
It's a frustrating time

McBaby Tue 05-Feb-13 17:33:23

Just had mine snipped again today at 25 weeks very little distress to her. The scar tissue had formed again but washes on one side than the other so was causing pain to me on one side and had caused her tongue to be wonky. She has stick her tongue out properly a few times today smile

becsparkel Tue 05-Feb-13 20:50:02

We had PTT revised at 4 weeks and again at 12 weeks. I still found it very hard to bf after the revision, I think because DS had learnt how to suck in the most efficient way he could - which caused me pain. The best thing we did was go to see a cranial osteopath, after some sessions (perhaps 4?) things started to improve amazingly.

There's a dentist in N London who divides lip ties using lazer, his name is Malcolm Levinkind - I think he is private though.

blonderthanred Tue 05-Feb-13 22:22:29

PTT snipped at 11 weeks - latch much improved and continues to be good at 14 wks.

AngelDog Thu 07-Feb-13 00:22:08

Malcolm Levenkind in Finchley does TT and LT laser revisions. He did my DS1's TT and LT at age 2.9 yrs and 4 m.o. DS2's lip tie yesterday (tongue was done on the NHS at 4 weeks). Costs £300 for consultation, treatment and follow up.

Laser is good IME - it numbs the wound, cauterises it and allows the dentist to see what they're doing much better, so they can release more of the tie. If DS1 had had his done with scissors he'd have needed a general anaesthetic, but with laser he didn't even need to be sedated.

Latch has improved already for DS2 - it improved with just tongue revision, but not as much as I'd hoped. Having osteopathy afterwards made an incredible difference to latch - we saw a big difference after only one session. We saw someone in Chalk Farm who has experience of post-TT release babies. Some professionals recommend osteo/chiro before the revision as well as after, as apparently it can help all the tie to move into a position where it can be more easily cut.

I had read (from the laser revision guy who seems to have trained most of the laser-treatment TT dentists around the world) that revising a lip tie would improve a smile rather than make it 'gummy'. The effect of lip tie on bf is definitely not understood well here.

ellangirl Thu 07-Feb-13 09:53:44

Could those with experience of lip tie please let me know what I might expect when my dd's teeth come through? She can't curl her top lip out so the latch has always been a bit shallow. Don't think she's tongue tied, though no one has checked. She has never had bottle or dummy so I'm worried in case the bf becomes more difficult? moresnowplease you mentioned this?

Ds2 had hos tongue tie released at 16 months.

I'm in Ireland and over here they don't snip it in babies as a) it almost always stretches by itself b) it can cause problems of its own and c) it's only considered a problem if speech is affected.

It didn't make much difference for feeding tbh... But then we'd struggled that far without it! The biggest difference in feeding was actually when he was about 6 months... He was big enough to change position himself which seemed to help.

His lip tie hasn't been snipped, as far as I know it won't be until he needs braces (which he will, substantial overbite)

MoreSnowPlease Thu 07-Feb-13 10:10:21

Ellangirl DS has 6 teeth, 2 bottom and 4 top...the top ones came through in an odd order the outer 2 incisors first and then the middle incisors, not sure if that has to do with the LT or not. He had a bad time with them coming through but no more than with the bottom 2 so I think that's just him rather than the LT.It's very hard to tell if they are going to be gappy, at the moment there is a gap but they are not fully through yet, he has had them about a month I think.The gap between the middle 2 and the middle/outer ones is the same and as the tie is only between the middle 2 it would suggest to me that they are gappy now because there are no other teeth to squash them in IYSWIM.However, the bottom 2 teeth have no tie and no gaps, so this would suggest the top gap is caused by the tie....I really don't know...maybe I should take him to a dentist, when are you supposed to take babies to dentists?!He wouldn't let anyone near his mouth now I don't think!

MoreSnowPlease Thu 07-Feb-13 10:18:17

Sorry ellangirl thought you were asking about gaps, must have confused with another post!

With regards to hurts! But DS has an extremely shallow latch, and he also pulls his chin down when he latches on...I read this may be the result of a LT as he can't curl lip so they bring lip down to breast by bringing chin down. Does your LO do this? Anyway the result is my nipple (as that's all he takes in his mouth) being squashed between tongue and top teeth, and as he sucks they scrape my nipple, then he pulls off all the time but stays attached while doing so and stretches my nipple as far as it will go before letting's not fun :-)

Might be different for you though, and even though it's painful, it's bearable....tongue tie for me was far far worse!

ellangirl Thu 07-Feb-13 11:19:55

Was it worse when teeth came through? I know my dd has bad latch because my nipple often comes out flattened ( lipstick shaped?) despite my best efforts to latch her properly. She is 15 weeks now. At the moment it is pain free, though it often feels a bit pinchy when she feeds. At some points it had been agony, well past the time when bf is supposed to be 'easy'.

I'm pretty sure I feel her top gum on my nipple too hence why I'm concerned about when teeth come through. She does pull off often during a feed, but at the moment I think that's more cos she's getting really nosy about what's going on around.

I just realised too that my DS has really pronounced lip tie. and I now wonder whether it was the reason that bf failed for us and I gave u by 8 weeks. He is a thumb sucker as well, I think I'd better ask the dentist about possible future issues! ( bad mother has finally booked proper check up now he's 3...)

MoreSnowPlease Thu 07-Feb-13 11:29:48

Sounds like a tongue tie to me (the lipstick shape and pinching feeling) DS would clamp down on my nipple, chewing instead of sucking before his TT was snipped. They go hand in hand with LTs from what I've read so maybe it's both?

ellangirl Thu 07-Feb-13 11:57:18

Hmm, I can see the lip tie easily, but can't see under her tongue enough. Maybe I'll get it checked. Prob should have considered it earlier but it honestly didn't occur to me that could be the reason latching has always been difficult, no hv or midwife ever checked or mentioned it, nor with my DS either.

BuntyCollocks Thu 07-Feb-13 12:22:59

Worth knowing that there is rarely a lip tie without a tongue tie ...

ellangirl Thu 07-Feb-13 12:28:28

Thanks bunty. I just read list of symptoms here and it's pretty much spot on. minipie sorry for thread hijack!

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