What have I done so wrong??

[Maximilimum]

Hi,
My DS is 6.5 months and has been EBF, we have just started BLW.

We have not really had any BF problems, his weight has been fine etc. At about 4 months his night wakings increased until he was waking every 1-2 hours.
It's a sleep regression, it will pass, it's a growth spurt, keep feeding, it's a 'phase'. Well over two months down the line and its still going on!

I saw a LC who said he wasn't feeding effect

[RandomMess]

Well as you've started weaning hopefully he will start getting more calories during the day then he has been. You could also start offering him formula in a cup with his meals?

[Maximilimum]

Sorry knocked the button!

Who said he wasn't feeding effectively, he was nipple feeding. We used breast compressions and it seemed to help, but now we have gone back again. Last night he went to sleep at 7, woke at 8, 9.30, 11.30, 1.30, 2.40, 4, 5,6.

This is quite typical and I am really struggling. My DH can sometimes settle him, but rarely. He just screams until I feed him.

I feel like I have done everything you are told to do, breast feed on demand etc, but I have now think I have created this problem.

I am exhausted and been in tears since 5 am.

[Iggly]

What is nipple feeding??

[Longtalljosie]

I assume by nipple feeding the HV thinks there's not a wide enough latch.

TBH I think if there were latch issues you'd have come a-cropper in the early days. How's the BLW going? And how many feeds are you doing in the day?

[RandomMess]

Does he fall asleep whilst feeding?

Nipple feeding means that he is suckling on the nipple rather than the breast so isn't get as much milk.

[Iggly]

As josie says though surely he would have done that as a newborn not suddenly reverted at 4 months?

Unless he has always been doing it but as he got more hungry, needs feeding more to keep up (I'm speculating).

Sleep between 4-7 months was awful for my two - as you describe. The feeding was due to reflux/tongue tie/developmental etc but with ds it improved around 7 months. With dd it took a bit longer. In fact dd fed for comfort more - she had tongue tie still has lip tie so takes down a lot of air- if I make sure she's well winded then she would sleep longer (usually). She's 13 months and only settling down now (her reflux is horrendous and she reacts to food I eat too).

What was he like as a baby?

[Maximilimum]

Yes he just slides back and sucks on the nipple, not massaging the breast enough.

I try not to let him fall to sleep whilst feeding, always rouse him a little so he knows he is going down. He can settle himself as he has done it before.

Weaning is still early days, I offer food everytime I eat something. Sometimes he eats more than others. Stuff is getting through as his nappies have changed. He is quite windy, and this seems to wake him as well. He has also just cut his front teeth.

[llamallama]

It took months for my DD to recover from the 4 months keep regression too :( I feel your pain but it will pass.

I used to block feed and only feed from one breast to make sure she had a proper full feed.

[Maximilimum]

He has a tounge tie, but I have been told it isn't affecting his feeding.
Before this he was waking up maybe twice in the night. As a newborn he fed very frequently, but no more than is usual as I understand!

[geekette]

just hit the 4 months myself. I wish I had known not to introduce any changes at this time.
we got down to waking every hour and went as low as every 20 mins....

block feeding eventually helped. got me back to every 2 hr feeds at night. is there something else you may have noticed which you think is unrelated? mine was slight engorgement.

I agree that if your lo is nipple feeding, he may have always done this and it isn't a problem to be honest...

take heart! that sleeping schedule is shattering! only last night I cried out of panic and fear that the frequent wakings may be permanent!
I think, like all things, this too shall pass.

[RandomMess]

Well maybe his tongue tie needs sorting, better to do it now than when he's older?

Sounds like his waking is as much to do with wind and teeth as hunger, and who doesn't fancy a nice snack when they are awake in the night...

[RandomMess]

In fact he could be swallowing wind because of his tongue tie, my dd certainly did and hers was only a mild/partial TT

[jaggythistle]

my DS2 has only just started sleeping a bit better at 8 months... both my boys were awful sleepers at 6/7 months - just as i went back to work.

i think the 2 colds and teething haven't helped here and i doubt you've done anything wrong.

i coped by co sleeping for a few hours when i was tired of getting up and down. i put him back to the cot most times, but on bad nights i got more rest with him beside me.

if he's falling off the breast it does sound like his latch might not be 100% with the tongue tie?

[Maximilimum]

Thanks for the responses.

Block feeding- is that just feeding on one side all night?
Or for how many feeds?

I don't think he always did the nipple feeding thing, he just became a bit lazy! No other problems that I am aware of. The breast compressions helped though as I feel a lot more full now and I can see milk in his mouth when he is feeding, and that had stopped, I had just assumed it was my supply leveling out but I don't think he was getting enough.

[BigWhoop]

Could it be the latch has changed because they are teething? Have you tried giving a dose of Calpol or neurofen when they wake to see if it makes a difference? If its developmental it won't make a blind bit of difference having a painkiller, but if there is pain then it might help? (I find neurofen works better than calpol for teeth).
4 month sleep regression seemed to last bloomin ages for us - then she popped 6 teeth in 6 weeks, and her sleep improved loads!

[Maximilimum]

I kept pushing the TT issue, but kept getting told its not a problem. I have had it looked at and told its a minor grade one.

[geekette]

you can define your own block for a block feed.
one of my boobs has quite severe over supply. so I fed from the unaffected one for night time until it stopped leaking / over producing .

now I just keep putting her back on the same breast until she has had one feed from it when it feels flat. only way I can guarantee she gets any hind milk.

sounds like you have fuller breasts now? someone correct me if I an wrong but it is better to have flatter breasts as these are 'working' ie producing milk on baby's demand?

[sparklingsky]

It sounds like there are a few things going on here. Firstly - congratulations for making it this long EBF :)

Dc3 gave us sleepless nights when teething- sounds like this is part of it. She was only comforted by nipple sucking

Dc2 had sleep problems and was v windy (Might be worth considering the baby massage technique for wind - I've tried typing one but I can't convey it, so web might be better :)

It's common to get more wakefulness when starting weaning - they need more calories but weaning can take time to establish. So this should improve soon.

But it's horrid and frankly ridiculous that you're experiencing this level of sleep deprivation. It's not common at this age. It must feel like having a newborn! I really feel for you. It might be a question of getting through it one day at a time. There are no easy answers. I'm guessing it'll get a lot better when he is eating more.

I would be wanting to rope in as many willing friends/family to take him out for you to get a couple of hours rest each day. Even if this was for a few days.

It will get a lot better. But it might not be immediately. Take care.

[sparklingsky]

Sorry, lots of x posts

[Iggly]

Ok well I think there's your problem.

My DD tongue tie was claimed to be minor by several people (paediatrician, MW, LC and BF counsellors). I found a LC who specialises in TT who immediately said it was 80% restricted and a posterior tie too which are harder to diagnose. That will probably be why he doesn't latch well properly. My supply is quite abundant so DD could get away with poor feeding and put on weight (but never as much as her older brother despite round the clock feeding).

I would find a LC who knows about TT. PM me if you're in London/Kent as can give you details. There's also a website called milk matters which explains TT issues.

Sadly I reckon that's the issue :(

[Iggly]

Ok I've read your other posts (being a bit slow) - might not be the TT but do get it checked again.

If he's quite windy is it burps or farts? He could be taking a lot of air in when feeding - do you wind after a feed?

[HappyAsASandboy]

How is his weight gain now? If it is all on track and you're still getting enough wet and dirty nappies, then I would say the 'nipple feeding' is about comfort not food.

My DS always fed well, good latch etc. then at about 4 months, started to take some milk then slip down and continue just on the nipple. As long as it didn't hurt, I let him, as I thought it was just for the cuddle and comfort.

Would you consider a dummy? It might reduce the night wakings to a level you can cope with. Otherwise, this really will pass....

[Maximilimum]

Thanks geekette. Will try block feeding this evening.
Sparkling, I tried some massage tonight, he hated it!
Iggly, I was convinced it was the TT, but really wouldn't we have had problems from birth? Wind is both ways! I try to wind after feeding but not always successful.
Happyas, his weight has always been fine, I have thought about a dummy but reluctant to introduce one at this age.

Thanks for all the support, I just needed to vent this morning! Had a miserable day but ate plenty of Xmas chocolate!
I'm going to try a few things tonight, but as its New Year we will have fireworks to contend with as well!

Happy New Year!

[mawbroon]

Please get the tongue tie dealt with by somebody who will do it properly.

There is a really good tongue tie support group on Facebook. Search for tongue tie babies support group and ask to join.

DS1 is 7 and his ties went undiagnosed until he was 6. We had the most awful time with feeding and sleeping and he has suffered multiple problems because of his ties and high palate, many of which could have been avoided by having him revised as a baby.

There is so much more to tongue tie than feeding, believe me.