milk come in and now he won't latch!

[blackcurrants]

Hello everyone, my son was born just before midnight on boxing day and fed like a champ until my milk came in around 4am last night - I've only got him properly latched on for a decent 20 minute feed twice since then- the rest of today has been him wailing at the breast, me bursting into tears, and then DH spoon-feeding him expressed milk. he has weed lots today but not pooed yet (it's nearly 7pm here.) he has had 20-30ml of expressed bm at each.failed feed and although he is sleeping a lot he is also alert, and peeing . . .
tomorrow I have an appointment with our very breastfeeding friendly and knowledgeable pediatrician and am going to ask for a referral to the practice' s lactation consultants- so.what I need is advice and hand-holding to get me through till lunchtime tomorrow (5pm GMT) .

people on this board helped me get going with nursing my DS1 and were so lovely when I felt like crap and struggled . we ended up feeding happily for 2 years so I feel like I should know what to do here, but this breast refusal has me totally freaked out! my plans include lots of skin to skin, varying positions, a little glass of wine and possibly chocolate- all other suggestions welcome!

[ThreeWheelsGood]

hello! this happened to me too, eventually hands-on help from midwife got a proper latch and hour long feed!. but the reason DD wouldn't latch was that my breasts were so engorged there wasn't a soft spot by my nipples/areola, so I needed to hand express a little to soften the area, have you tried that?

[blackcurrants]

yes, three that was what worked the times it worked. I've been using a hand-pump because I wanted to have plenty to give him but it make y nipples a funny shape for a bit afterwards which probably isn't helping DS get keen on the idea! I am trying to time it so I'm not too engorged when he wakes, as that starts the whole palaver again.

[5madthings]

Yes I had this and expressed a bit either with a pump or by hand and put a warm flannel on breast to encourage let down and then hand expressed to soften the aerola.

Should only last a few days until the engorgment starts to settle down.

Congratulations on your newborn :)

[ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings]

Try to hand express a little off just before a feed, so it softens your breast slightly to allow latching on.

Try different positions such as the rugby ball hold, as it may help him negotiate a full breast more.

Try not to let him go longer than 2hrs during the day & 4 at night, for both your supply & comfort.

If he's sleepy, try changing his nappy, stripping his clothes off, tickling his feet, so he is awake & ready to feed, but not ravenous and at the crying stage when latching becomes tricky!

Good luck.

[ThereGoesTheYear]

Stay away from the wine! It encourages milk production but makes let-down harder. Not what you want if you're engorged.

[DontYouJingleMyChristingle]

After expressing a little bit as others have suggested you could try the biological nurturing position.

[mathanxiety]

Hand express some milk frequently.

Then to help the latching, you need to grip your boob with your hand held like a letter C with thumb on top and rest of your fingers under the boob, very tightly and quite far back from the nipple, so that your nipple area becomes a lot more flattened than rounded and you can direct it straight into the baby's mouth when it opens wide without any flopping or need for the baby to suck it in (which will give you blistered and sore nipples). Your aim is to make your nipple quite firm and easy to push far into the baby's mouth. Squeeze hard.

Though it will likely hurt and be frustrating, with lots of gulping and burping and all sorts of mess, you should be through this awkwardness in a few days and nights if you attempt it every two hours round the clock. Get a few towels for mopping yourself and make sure you are well propped up with cushions and that everyone around you is waiting on you hand and foot. Ask for no visitors and go topless to let your nipples dry and heal.

If you get horribly sore try a hot compress (wet washcloth) on the area for relief and keep expressing as best you can. Don't worry about wasting milk. You will make more. Keep on drinking plenty of fluids yourself.

[blackcurrants]

this is all golden, ladies, thank you. definitely spending this night and tomorrow morning snuggled up topless, and will not have.any more wine (was a lovely half glass of prosecco- good job the bottle is finished ).
since I last posted I've got him latched quite well on in a side-lying position but it's still not deep enough, and concern he tends to hang out comfort-sucking until he falls asleep. I can see from his ears and neck that he drinks and swallows when I compress the breast for him but otherwise he isn't really drinking properly just sucking. I need to get him on deeper. why are newborn mouths so very tiny?

will wake him after 2 hours in the day and 4 at night - that's a good guideline. He slept in 3 hour chunks.this afternoon after spoonfeeding. Because we had such.a.disjointed and stressful morning, I imagine- poor old us. we will get there, thank you so much for the support!
there's a photo one profile if anyone wants to admire the.cheeks

[mathanxiety]

How did I miss the name on the OP Blackcurrants??

[blackcurrants]

hiya Math
I get good counsel here, also it's good to .hear 'you'll get it' and general don't panic messages! This is the right time for the post-birth blues, why it should always coincide with a breastfeeding crisis for me I don't know - confidence probably . and tiredness ..

He's done a big poo which is reassuring . He' s not been doing enough which is another.sign he is not getting enough at the boob. And supply is NOT the issue, so it's definitely the latch.
Aaand he just spat up on me. yep
, plenty of milk available!

[KatieLily12]

Have you tried cabbage leaves in your bra to ease the engorgment? My daughter was totally overwhelmed by my breast when milk first came in and I tried this trick and it relieved things enough for her to latch.

Don't over use them though as it will reduce milk production.

[blackcurrants]

Okay, that was the best feed yet, because I'd expressed quite a lot off before.starting - you're all brilliant.

I.was.chatting to DS, telling him "now,love, the ladies of Mumsnet say I have.to prod you to keep you awake. . ." and DH overheard and said "you'd better watch out for the ladies of Mumsnet , DS, it starts with the prodding and ends up who knows where!"

[RedKites]

Congratulations on your DS! It sounds like the two of you are getting it sorted, but in case you have any more problems, reverse pressure softening may help instead/ as well as the expressing.

[karatekimmi]

My DS had trouble latching so we used a nipple shield for the first few weeks. It made it easier for him to latch on and I could encourage shove it in his mouth him to latch onto the correct part.
For me I found the medula ones the best - Tommee tippee were like cheese graters! Hth

[MaMaPo]

Blackcurrants, I find it so helpful to talk to my baby as we're starting a feed. It must sound bonkers: 'Come on love, no need to get so frantic, just wait one moment and I'll. give you a hand. Now, remember, big open mouth, you can do better than that! Ouch, nope, that's terrible, we're going to have to try that again. Oh, don't give me that look, you'll be feeding soon enough...'

:)

[blackcurrants]

if it's bonkers, MaMa then you're not alone :)
This whole 'spend the day in bed with the baby' thing was MUCH easier when we had our first child. I feel so guilty not spending more time with the toddler... arrgh! I have to remind myself that this whole 'attached to baby' thing will NOT last forever. And that it's quite nice. And that soon we'll sort the feeding part out. Breasts like boulders this morning, despite some expressing in the night. Managed to get a side-lying latch with DS and feed him for a bit, after giving him about 10ml from a spoon.
Our scenario at the moment is:
Wake, root, I scoop him up and try to latch him on.
He gets increasingly frantic and starts wailing and flailing, arching his back away from the breast and refusing to close his mouth. I can feel myself getting increasingly stressed and weepy in response.
I spoon feed him around 10ml of milk and burp him
he calms down enough for me to latch him on.
He feeds for less than 10 minutes before falling asleep.

ugh. He's been asleep for about an hour now, so I'm going to hand-express a bit in the hopes of another decent latch when he next wakes.
Ugh. I want this part to be sorted!

[blackcurrants]

well it's 8pm.and somehow in.the last two hours he has latched himself on and had two really good feeds. interestingly both times I was just letting him hang out on a cushion near the boob, and he sorted himself out . I always had to wrestle DS1 on quite firmly, so didn't even think about adjusting my game before all your suggestions - thank you again! For the first time since I first posted I am experiencing that lovely post-feed relaxation where your shoulders un-tense and then everything feels.grand

now to get him chilled enough to feed without giving him 20ml of pumped bm first! I think some of the problem was him sleeping for such a long time and then waking ravenous . Again, DS1 never slept, ever, so it's. confused me!
happy new year everyone!

[DontYouJingleMyChristingle]

Glad it is all working itself out, happy new year :)