To anyone who finds bf is not straightforward

[smk84]

Hi! I may have a warped opinion of what bf is like, but I imagine lots of mums with their babies enjoying lovely snuggle feeds where lo goes on like a dream , swallows a tonne of milk and comes off fast asleep or smiling. There's no pain or fussing and the baby is gaining weight like a dream. Then I think of the reality of it...for us... Problem after problem, feeling no one else can really help, except on mn of course, and actually we have had a lot of support, but it feels like we are on our own most of the time. So I don't want to go into all the problems here again, but .... Is anyone else in the same boat? Carrying on even though it's really hard? Questioning whether to carry on . Not stopping because it's best for lo and bound to get easier at some point. I just thought it might be nice to support each other on this thread. My lo is 13 weeks, and I really do hope I will be sat there giving him his first solids at 6 months knowing he has only had bm, but my goodness it is hard...

[SirGOLDBoobs]

Hi there. What exactly are you having problems with right now? Maybe we can help :)

[needsadviceplease]

It was hell for me through to 12 weeks. Gradually better from 10wo and pain-free by 14wo. He's 20wo now and I'm so glad I stuck with it. I hope it improves for you asap.

[mrsvilliers]

Have you tried a lactation consultant? I had terrible problems and found one really helpful. They cost but she was worth every penny. Good luck and hope it gets better, there is nothing more horrible than painful breastfeeding.

[smk84]

Thank you. Sir Gold Right now ds is screaming with what I think is botty wind. He seems to want to feed but when he does he seems to be struggling with it and pulling off and screaming. Other times he can't seem to cope with the flow, although that only seemed to be a problem from about 10weeks. Other times he is frustrated that the flow has slowed. Sometimes it hurts, ESP when he is alway pulling off unexpectedly. I have posted a few threads recently with more detail if you have time to read. Mrs v yes I did as I thought his latch could be improved but it didn't really help. Needs that gives me hope :)

[smk84]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1560254-flow-too-fast-and-sore-nipples-shields-or-express

[needsadviceplease]

DS went through a phase of pulling off all the time - found nursing lying down helped loads. He wasn't screaming though. Sympathy re the pulling off - it does hurt, doesn't it! :(

[smk84]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1560254-flow-too-fast-and-sore-nipples-shields-or-express

[smk84]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1560254-flow-too-fast-and-sore-nipples-shields-or-express

[smk84]

Sorry just getting to grips with posting links (only if anyone has the time to read, I intended this thread to be a general let's encourage each other thread)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1559638-13wo-latch-slipping-coming-off-all-the-time-getting-v-sore-not-sure-what-to-do-next

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1547570-How-can-I-reduce-anxiety-about-BF-long

[SwivelHips]

Our babies are the same age and I remember your posts as the earlier ones I could have written verbatim.
I started mix feeding at 6 wks, lack of confidence in my supply and I needed some structure back in my life. Now at 14 wks I love bf him, its now so easy but so hard in the beginning. Full respect to you to keep going, I couldn't but I've made my peace with it now.
Just to add my ds has similar symptoms with the botty wind, whether I'm feeding him or its formula he still has a tough time of it. All I'm saying is adding formula just opened up new problems for me to worry about, it didn't solve anything.
Anyway, just wanted to say well done for getting this far and I.hope things resolve for you both soon :)

[Mandinga79]

Had a really hard time starting BFing but so glad (and proud ) I stuck with it.

With the latching on, then pulling off and screaming...my DS does this when he's a combination of overtired and hungry. I've come to think the white noise app I have on my phone is the best 69p that anyone ever spent in the world ever, because not only can it get him to sleep for daytime naps, if I place my phone near his head while he's in one of these screamy-pull-off moods and just persist, he settles down and has a full feed. It's so effective I've often wondered if I'm hypnotically making him feed when he doesn't actually want/need to. I'll see if I can make him act like a chicken while I've got it on, then I'll have my answer

[tiktok]

smk, are you any further forward getting help with your anxiety about bf?

We discussed on previous threads that much of what you and your baby are experiencing are not 'problems' as such - that bf is actually ok, in fact - but your feelings about how it's going don't really reflect that.

Having said that, someone who knows about bf might be helpful, as an observer of the possible resistance to fast flow, or other reason for your baby coming off.

[smk84]

Thanks swivel I am not sure I deserve respect I often am feeling rather stupid for carrying on at the toll it has taken on us. I keep hoping it will get easier but today ds has been fussy on every feed, hands flailing, sometimes kicking legs, clamping down, pulling off, and I am trying to hold it together but have lost my temper once and that's no good for him obviously. I can't even take my eyes off him for a minute in case he comes off and tries to suck back on my nipple.
Mandinga I use hair dryer for sleep but have just downloaded white noise app, hoping it may work sometimes.
H tiktok yes I am getting help and it helps sometimes, but on days like today where ds is not feeding properly and I can't even watch tv or think straight to distract myself, I find it hard to use the techniques I am learning. In the last week the infant feeding advisor and Hv have watched him feed and he fed perfectly, which I would say accounts for 10% of feeds at the moment. Nothing they have suggested has helped. I also phoned lll and spoke to lovely lady but again suggestions have not helped, except perhaps lying down to feed, which I do sporadically as I find it v diff to relax in that psn. I can't help feeling the time is coming to stop, and that makes me so sad.

[tiktok]

Sorry to hear all that, smk....not sure how switching to formula would help with any of it, as he may be fussy and wriggly on a bottle, too.

When you lose your temper (obv this is a rare thing, I know), try to do it away from the baby, so he does not see you not holding it together. Babies can't read minds, and stressed thoughts and feelings 'inside' you are not transmitted, but they do see faces and behaviours and hear voices, and can become confused and scared. I wonder if conscious relaxation as soon as he starts to fuss would help you, and help him, too??? It sounds like your anxiety levels are very high, and making it really hard for you to remember the techniques....perhaps tell the counsellor/therapist this? There may be other techniques to use.

[nannyl]

I was where you are from about 6 weeks until 6 months

at 5month 3 weeks something clicked (and id just been carrying on to the magic 6month mark).... then it all became as easy as you describe in the first paragraph

DD has her birthday this week and we are still LOVING BFing.... i never thought it would become easy... but it did... (just took a long while to get there!)

I hope it gets better for you soon XXX

[smk84]

Thanks tiktok I think it would Help because it wouldnt hurt and others could help so I could have chance to get better also I wouldn't be worrying about positioning and how much he is taking or whether I can make it to preschool to collect ds without him needing a feed. I was v anxious feeding ds1 and when we switched to ff it was so much easier. The flip side is that stopping with ds1 nearly finished me off! Due to guilt. Tiktok are the behaviours I described to be expected with bf?

[showtunesgirl]

I too remember your other threads OP and I think that you may well have over-idealised what BF is like.

I would write down how each feed goes and I think you'll find that good feeds, whatever that means, are actually more often than you think!

I remember that in another thread, you were worrying about ideal weight gain when there was nothing wrong with your LO's weight gain. I think as tiktok said, it seems to be more related to anxiety issues rather than specific BF ones.

[smk84]

Thanks nanny that's really encouraging.
Yes show I agree, but i am sure it shouldn't be this uncomfy, on off, pulling around etc, or is that what some bf relationships are like?
Raspberry when I lie own I lie on my side, do you mean lying on my back?

[tiktok]

smk, I can't tell if the pulling off etc is within normal - all babies do this some of the time, for sure, so it's a spectrum, really.

It might be helpful if someone saw you feed.

FF would not stop you worrying 'has he had enough?' because you won't know what he needs at any one time! Or you will think he needs x ounces and when he takes y ounces you will worry....and bottle feeding still does not mean the baby won't need a feed on the way to school...

[smk84]

Thanks tiktok. I do know that if I offered a bottle before school run that at his age it would last him at least an hour, if not way more. I offer both breasts before I go but when he cries on way home I have no idea whether it's hunger thirst or something else, but I am coming to terms with thinking its ok for him to wait10 mins these days. I do know with ff that he would take what he wants and I know that with bf too, but after 2 sides I ne er know if he is half full. And will want 2 more in 40 mins, iykwim. I think the unpredictability of it is what I find hard. If he was content feeding I thiink I could handle the rest much better. I don't think there is anyone left to watch me feed who hasn't seen already !

[tiktok]

Yes, it is ok for him to wait occasionally I agree :)

He may not be any more predictable on a bottle....may not last an hour, may feed little and often with the bottle, may take x ounces and you think maybe he needed more etc etc.

I do understand that being content when he breastfeeds is important, and it's not unreasonable for you to want this at all.

But he may not be any different on a bottle. This is the unknown thing!

[Ecgwynn]

I felt like you did until baby was about 14 weeks. Keep going. x

[rubberducky24]

Hi SMK - just wanted to let you know I feel exactly the same way. I had an emergency c section on Saturday and have found BF one of the most difficult and upsetting things I have ever done. I had real trouble getting her to latch on in hospital and had to have a midwide help with every feed. I was made to feel really inadequate by the midwives and was told "we do have other patients"

I can't get her to latch on the right breast and have to do all the feeds from the left which means my left breast is really sore. I don't think she is latched on properly even now but I put up with the pain just to get some food in her. She didn't feed at all last night and I have not slept since she has been born. As she doesn't latch properly she gets really wound up and then I can't get her into position and since my milk has come in my breasts have gone t0 a J cup and I can't get them into a position that is comfortable for us either.

My plan was to express from my right and switch to bottle feeding her breast milk, possibly still trying to feed from the left, however after last night I have decided that we will switch to formula. I have enough things to learn about being a first time mum without worrying that my precious daughter isn't eating.

She has had 2 formula feeds today, both given by her dad as recommended by the midwife yesterday when I told her what we were planning on doing. She has fed like a dream so far. I know that FF will take some getting used to for her but I now feel more confident that she is actually taking food in.

I spent a lot of time in tears thinking that I was a failure as BF isn't all I thought it would be and that I can't be doing what's best for my daughter but now I feel that I have made the right decision to stop BF. She has had the colostrum which is the main thing and I am so much happier as is she.


Good luck with whatever you decide to do - only you know what's best for you and your baby so please don't feel guilty if you decide to switch. I'm sick of people telling me that "breast is best and you should perservere" - while I agree, with all due respect they are not experiencing what I am going through so they are not in a place to judge.

Apologies for the length of this post but I have found it very therapeutic to write it down. Thank you for sharing your experience and making me realise I am not alone.