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4 week old not feeding very well, but alert. Wwyd?

(64 Posts)
Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 10:21:46

I've had several trails and tribulations trying to get bf established but we've had a good few days and dd2 has started to put on weight. However, yesterday she didn't have a great feed all day but didn't really think about it until the evening. In the end, I topped her up but she hardly had 1oz. In the night she fussed and fussed at the breast so I expressed and gave her ebm instead. But she only took very small amounts- 1oz at 6am and 2oz at 9am. She is normally v eager to drink a from a bottle but seems lack lustre at the mo. When bf, she doesnt seem to have the energy and falls asleep more quickly. Also she settled v easily in her basket overnight, from awake, she is not normally that easy!! Do you think I should keep an eye for a while or see the HV/gp?

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 11:55:49

Bumpsmile

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 11:58:30

I should add that my milk supply is really dwindling. As another thread said, if it's not one thing its another. Wondering about domperidone...would a gp prescribe it on the phone?

bangcrash Tue 27-Sep-11 13:08:16

Are you getting good real life support from a bfc or lactation consultant?

If not then sounds like it might help you.

There isn't enough info in your post for anyone to be able to see what is going on but go with your instincts and if a Gp check woukd reassure you get one.

Pumping IF your baby isn't feeding boosts supply. Lots of gps won't prescribe domperidone for lactation purposes although it is safe. Would imagine therefore it would need a visit rather than phone call.

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 15:03:33

sad sad needsomewine....sad for you that you feel you are still struggling with the confidence thing.

If you think your dd might be a bit poorly then a call to the HV would be a good first step.

But can't see why you think your breastmilk supply is dwindling...

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 15:30:21

I know tiktok, still feeling incredibly up and down sad and I am trying not to be a drama queen wink. dd has just had a better feed so doing a bit better. This stems from weighing dd yesterday (yes I know what a bad idea that was) after a rather pants day feeding-wise and she'd gained no weight in 5 days.

Ended up expressing rather than direct bf for 4 feeds in a row and my expressing output was rubbish plus my breasts didn't feel full either. Hopefully now that she has fed directly again I'll get back on an even keel but dd doesn't seem 100%, think she might be a bit jaundiced still... Unfortunately it's so much about the weight gain for me, I know it shouldn't be but it is blush

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 15:55:17

sad Sorry you are now feeling like this. Four days ago you were posting on how well she was doing, and how much weight she'd put on - no need to weigh her, and if you do, you are going to see results that mean nothing....that's why healthy babies should not be weighed more often than once a month. A baby who gains 9 oz in a week (as yours did) is unlikely to do the same the next week, so a zero weight gain in 5 days means zero smile

Weight is only one aspect of a baby's health anyway.

Expressing is not an indication of milk supply.

It sounds as if you are judging every feed and assessing your breastfeeding by it - that's not helpful sad

I wish there was some way to help you feel more reassured and confident.

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 17:00:13

You're right and I know I sound like a crazed loon. I do judge every feed, I can't help it. Its hard when you've got an inefficient feeder. I don't think I can sustain bf, just get so upset by it. I want dd to gain weight so I just topped her up after feeding her for an hour. She took 60 mls and I feel totally demoralised and a failure that she needed it. This is not a healthy bf relationship!

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 17:18:16

you're not crazed just very worried. i dont understand why you are so sure she is not efficient. she sounds as if shes doing ok. no need to top her up. some babies like to stay on the breast diddling about and enjoying sucking on and off. many babies will then take a top up but it does not mean bf was not working.....i think you only half accept all this and you need some real life support. it isnt bf thats not working. its a confidence thing and you may need some real life cheer leading!

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 18:21:43

Thank you tiktok, you have made me cry again smile. Am a hormonal mess! Yes I hate all this top up palava and really believe the only successful way to bf is to directly bf and to leave off the expressing and top ups especially when it's still early days. I do worry about supply when I top up and don't express the same amount.

She certainly isn't efficient. I base this on the experience of feeding her on the rare occasion a feed goes very well. She will suck pretty consistently and a feed on both sides plus a nappy change is done in 40 mins. Just seen a thread on here where someone is saying their baby of a similar age is feeding 10-15 mins each side usually. I wish dd was like that. A lot of the time she isn't sucking but I don't like to pull her off too soon as sometimes another letdown will come and she gets going again. Dd 1 was like this too but I didnt mind investing the time as she did put weight on steadily. The good feeds are when generally when I've been slack or just not been in to wake dd up and the spacing has been 3.5 to 4 hrs between feeds which does make me wonder if I'm feeding her too often now, I'm not sure she has enough energy for it on days like today.

I think I do need to go to a bf support group or something. Think I may be the one crying in the corner though!

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 18:42:05

You won;t be the first mother to have a weep at a bf support group, that's for sure smile

What you are doing is exhausting. You are topping up and then guaging how much you ought to express and worrying when you don't manage it. Eeek! Babies often take a top up when they may not actually need it - they like to suck. Then they may take rather more than they need - it's not an indication that you need to express as much....though of course you are right that expressing when you miss a bf for whatever reason is protective of your supply. But what is even more protective is not topping up in the first place smile

She does not sound inefficient to me. Your definition of an efficient feed is way, way, way out....you say it has to be 40 mins inc a nappy change. Why? smile Who wrote that law? Some babies take more than this, some take less, some take more/less sometimes, and on other occasions do something different.

We are talking little human beings here, remember smile. If you wanted to talk about an efficient washing machine, you might want your clothes washed and rinsed and spun in 60 minutes or whatever, and if your machine stuck on the spin, or didn't rinse properly, or took forever, then you'd wonder if something was wrong. But a baby, a person, is going to be more variable than this for all sorts of reasons, and that's something that goes with the territory of babycare, whether bottle or breast.

Energy in a baby is not something that comes and goes, in relation to 'good' feeds. A healthy thriving baby like yours will have different days and different needs and different moods, even. You 'tune into' her best when you go with her flow and stop assessing all the time. She is gaining weight - and that's down to your care and vigilance during the difficult time. Now you can relax a bit...yes?

You cannot feed her 'too often' - she best adjusts her intake to her appetite when you keep her close, feed her when she cues she would accept a feed...and if you think she still needs encouraging to feed that's ok but you don't need to sweat it, as far as I can tell from what you have written here. The urgency is over now smile Time to enjoy her.....

FormbyDoula Tue 27-Sep-11 18:43:46

Needsomewine, it sounds like you are doing great! How old is DD?

It may be that she is just becoming a very efficient feeder. If she is not taking the top-ups then it seems she is not hungry. If her wees and poos are good and she is generally wel there is no need to worry. Just keep feeding!

Sometimes babies do fuss at the breast and won't settle, but it is not necessarily because they are hungry. It's just what babies do.

Tiktok is right that you just need your confidence building.

Where are you based? I work for the breastfeeding support team in Sefton and we run a one-to-one service if you need it. Unlikely you are in our area but you never know!

FormbyDoula Tue 27-Sep-11 18:45:44

Oops, sorry, I've just seen your DD is 4wo.

FormbyDoula Tue 27-Sep-11 18:49:30

Sorry a bit of cross-posting there as I am at work and got interrupted.

As you were....

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 18:52:12

doula - OP's dd is now taking the top ups.....that's what worries her.

veryfedupatthemoment Tue 27-Sep-11 18:58:48

Sounds like you are doing well even though you are finding it hard.

The top up - the fact she drank it doesn't mean that she needed it. If you put a mug of tea and a piece of cake in front of me this second, I would scoff it. I am not especially thirsty and I have just eaten my tea - but I would still take it if offered. I would have been just fine without it.

Do try to get to a group/baby cafe if you can, talking to others really does help.

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 20:13:49

Right, have had a good cry and approached a 7 pm feed with dd confident and relaxed. It's 1 hour 10 mins later and still failed to get her feeding. She latches on an gets cross or sucks quite weakly then falls asleep. What to do? Milk is def diminishing from my supply a few days ago when things were good. Do I not give in and keep trying til she feeds? Last feed was the 2oz at 4.30. Ironically have found a bf cafe to go to in the morning but at this rate, I'll no longer e bf in the morning. I'm so cross with myselfvnow for letting myself weigh her and ruin things.

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 20:21:43

sad

Not sure what you are describing, needsomewine. What happened at 7 pm?

If you have been struggling to get her to feed at all for 1 hr 10 mins, then this is the law of diminishing returns - it's stressful for both of you and she will 'switch off'.

Why do you think your milk supply is diminishing in a few days? Milk supply is not on a fragile knife edge like that...

For now just keep her snuggled in to you, skin to skin. Don't force it.

You say you 'allowed yourself to weigh her' and that's what ruined things - but then you list a whole load of things that indicate (to you) that things unrelated to weighing have got bad. Are you saying that the weighing has made you unable to relax and trust the process?

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 20:52:06

She started feeding just after that post lol! I'd let her sleep for 10 mins on my boob for a bit of peace and she then woke up and started feeding wellsmile. God I feel really determined now!! Really thought it was all over as that was only the 2nd direct feed she's had all day. I really need to stop giving in and giving a bottle. I hate the fact that I've got in such a mess over this.

Yes tiktok, both times I've weighed and not been pleased have turned into awful days of expressing, giving bottles etc. Definitely affects my ability to relax when I see the lack of weight gain.

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 20:54:42

Are you weighing her at home? You have baby scales at home?????

Yikes....not necessary! Can you dismantle them?

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 21:16:46

Yes a friend passed them on to me when I had dd1! Yes have felt like throwing them out the window today...

crikeybadger Tue 27-Sep-11 21:32:21

Chuck 'em out Needsomewine and go and have a glass of wine

Hope the group goes well tomorrow and you come out feeling better about everything. smile

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 21:36:54

Blimey - second hand baby scales and prob uncalibrated and unserviced and therefore inaccurate!

tiktok Tue 27-Sep-11 21:37:39

Bet they are analogue and maybe spring balanced, yes? Out of the ark??? smile

Needsomewine Tue 27-Sep-11 22:13:56

They must be 8 years old but they are digital and surprisingly close to dd's weight last time the HV weighed her...so, even more dangerous for me to have in close proximity!

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