FFS just been told that I should try dd3 with a bottle to see how much she is taking because she is ill

[nymphadora]

Told by a nurse advisor at OOH Drs.

I'm concerned about her getting dehydrated as she is chesty & bunged up and finding it difficult to feed.

Bottle suggested I don't have any bottles or milk to put in them and she has never had one. Apparently she will pick it up if she is hungry despite being ill

[squiggleywiggler]

Sounds like dodgy advice to me!

Are her nappies still as wet as normal? If so she's unlikely to be dehydrated.

You could try offering her the breast more often than normal.

Also if you put Vicks on your own chest (where it won't touch her) she will still breathe in the vapours and clear her nose a bit while feeding.

Also try getting the bathroom really steaming and taking her in there for 10 mins before feeding.

How old is she BTW?

[greenbananas]

Such weird advice! I'm not surprised you're feeling a bit

If your DD is so bunged up that she can't feed at all, how is she more likely to feed from a bottle than a breast??

The actual volume of breastmilk taken is not massively important as the composition of breastmilk changes slightly throughout a feed (e.g. towards the end of a feed it is fattier and there is a higher concentration of fat-soluble nutrients).

It makes me so that health professionals give such outdated and uninformed advice.

(BTW, some mums find that saline drops can help to clear babies' noses - but then again you may well not need them)

[greenbananas]

Good advice from squiggley about the wet nappies - if her nappies are wet she is unlikely to be dehydrated

[dontstopmenow]

Nymph, I am having the exact same problem with my dd. She is finding feeding really difficult. Like Squiggley said, I am judging that not dehydrated by wet and dirty nappies produced. My DD refuses to take a bottle no matter how hungry she is so i suspect that you will upset your DD even more if you try. I would just feed s often as she will take it and see how it goes. Hope she gets better soon. :)

[festivefriedawhingesagain]

Very dodgy advice. Saline drops to help clear a snotty nose can helps, as can squirting some BM up there.

When they are ill it is still the wet nappies that reassure you she is getting enough fluid, or alert you that she is not.

Have they offered to see her tonight?
She is 2 months ish yes?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

I second the advice to feed in a steamy bathroom. Try and feed her in a slightly more upright position as well if you can.

[nymphadora]

8 weeks.

She had a bath earlier as she was covered in sick & that helped. I'm feeding her practically constantly so she has the opportunity but is struggling & frustrated.

She has got worse in last couple of hours regarding feeding etc so up til then nappies were ok.

Her mouth is v dry if that means anything?

[spidookly]

Head meet wall. bang bang bang bang.

What a completely stupid thing to suggest.

It doesn't inspire confidence does it?

If only breasts were clear with volume markings on. It would make breastfeeding so much better.

Hope your DD starts feeling better soon. Feed her as often as you can, it helps in so many ways when they're not well, doesn't it?

[MoonUnitAlpha]

I found a couple of drops of karvol on a bib helped when ds was really bunged up too.

[nymphadora]

Oh the nurse asked what my MWsays about it ( no MW after 2 weeks) & have I tried the HV ( only work 9-5)

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

In her mouth, or around her mouth?

I would squirt a bit of milk up her nose if you don't have any saline, it will help to clear it and then she can take a better feed.

Poor little thing, but daft advice from the nurse - a bottle is harder to manage with a blocked nose surely because the baby can't control the flow so well, especially not when they've never fed from one before!

[festivefriedawhingesagain]

At 8 weeks, with any difficulties breathing or feeding, they should offer to assess her and listen to her chest. Part of my role includes triage like this and I wouldn't dream of giving such poor advice - but I am a BF supporter as well as long term BFer

If they haven't offered to see her I would ring back and say you are concerned and would like her to be seen please - broken record technique works well here.

[nymphadora]

In her mouth.

Tried the milk/ nose thing before but have trouble aiming (kept getting her eyes )

[CMOTdibbler]

I'd get in the bath with her on me and let her feed like that. Require people to visit you with tea/snacks, and put the radio on. Should really help her.

Karvol do a diffuser plug in which is fab

[SeriousWispaHabit]

This advice is ridiculous. You will know she is getting enough the same way you usually know and you don't need a bottle for that - wet nappies, alert etc.

If you have concerns about her not feeding enough and her being stuffy etc then they should see her and not offer rubbish advice.

Feed more frequently and try different positions. If you are still concerned and she is a young baby then get back onto them and get her seen and assessed.

[greenbananas]

I don't know about dry mouth... hopefully somebody more knowledgable will be along here soon as it sounds like you have been rather badly supported by your HCPs - but breastfeeding as much as possible is definitely good and will help your DD to stay rehydrated and beat this infection.

[festivefriedawhingesagain]

Dry mouth can be a symptom of dehydration. Or it might just be that she is mouth breathing and it has dried out because her nose is blocked up.

How are the wet nappies? Wet or barely damp?

Any wheeze - whistling noise when she breathes as opposed to sounds a bit rattly/phlegmy?

Any fever?

Is she her usual alert self or very droopy/lethargic?

[nymphadora]

Wet so far but last 3 have been poo so not getting time to be wet !

Wheezing but not constant like asthma
No fever
Fairly alert but tired cos it's bed time.

Dr just phoned cos I told the nurse I didn't want to go to clinic now( heavy snow , hospital 30 min away normally) dr more sensible , suggested thongs to look for.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Well dirty is good too - there must be plenty going in for there to be enough left to generate 3 poos!

What did the Dr say? Is he/she going to ring again?

[festivefriedawhingesagain]

Ok so they did offer to see her and Dr rang you, that's good

Keep offering lots of BF, the bottle idea was rather crap. If she has a bit of lurgy then breastmilk with all those lovely antibodies more important than ever. Hope she perks up for you soon.

[TruthSweet]

Nymphadora - I've had an 8 week old with bronchiolitis (fairly common for little ones to get espec. in RSV season). It does make feeding difficult and can lead to dehydration quite quickly if a bad case of it.

I'm now going to post some information about wheezing/difficulty to breathe and it's not to frighten you (I promisebut so you can check some things out re. your DD3.

Watch for intercostal breathing (skin being sucked in between the ribs so you can see the rib bones), tracheal tug (the little dip at the base of the neck going in on breathing), her shoulders rising on breathing in, faster than normal breathing, greying or purpling of skin around mouth and abdominal breathing (tummy bulging out from base of ribs when breathing).

If you notice any of those call 999 as she is v young. I have been soundly bollocked before because I've taken DD3 in a taxi to hospital and not called for an ambulance - they don't mess about with babies and breathing probs. There isn't much they can do at the hosptial except palliative care (oxygen/headbox/tubefeeding/moist air) but that helps a baby with bronch. heal quicker.

Also, contrary to most is to keep feeding little but often (very often!). Big feeds swell the stomach which pushes on the abdomen making breathing that bit more difficult.

I really hope your DD3 is not showing any of those signs, and gets better really soon and the wheezing is just 'upper respiratory tract noise' Dr speak for noisy snotty nose .

[BelleDeChocChipCookieMonster]

Is does she have a frothy mouth??

[nymphadora]

None of those signs thanks but will keep an rye out.don't know how I raised other two as I'm so paranoid about dd3!

No to frothy mouth!

She is settled now but dontvwant to put her down :(

[AllSheepareWhite]

Completely normal for such a small one to struggle. This is what I have always done for DD:

1. Run hot water into bath and sit in bathroom for steam inhalation even during feeds if really bad.
   
2. Saline drops, then suck out mucus (I do it myself, but you can buy bulb nasal aspirators to do it for you).
   
3. Damp towels or mug of water on radiator to increase humidity in the air in bedroom (dry mouth often due to mouth breathing whilst nose blocked with mucus).
   
4. Increase feeds (baby gets more watery foremilk to reduce dehydration).
   
5. Feed baby with their heads elevated higher than usual to allow sinuses to drain whilst feeding. Also rub gently from bridge of nose out across cheekbones to help clear sinuses.
   6)Raise mattress by putting pillows/blankets under it to help with breathing whilst they sleep.
   
6. 12 weeks onwards - vapour rub and/or Karvol diffuser plug as they are not advised before this age by manafacturer.
   
7. As another poster has said be aware of symptoms of bronchiolitis, DD (17 months) had this recently as did her baby cousin (8.5 months but premie baby so 6 months corrected age)who was hospitalised for 3 days, they both woke up screaming as if in pain in the late evening one night. This is a different cry to the one for frustration due to snuffly breathing so trust your instincts and if you are at all worried about breathing phone NHS Direct/GP/999 depending on severity of symptoms to get advice/help.
   
   Check signs of dehydration:
   
   Symptoms of Minimal Dehydration
   Most children who are sick, either with a cold or mild stomach bug, will have minimal or no dehydration. These children are alert and appear well and have:
   
   
   • normal thirst or may refuse some liquids
     
   • a moist mouth and tongue
     
   • normal to slightly decreased urine output
     
   • less than 3 percent weight loss
     
   • normal heart rate, pulses, breathing, and warm extremities
     
   • capillary refill less than 2 seconds
     
   • instant recoil on skin turgor test
     
   • eyes not sunken (and/or fontanel in a baby)
     
     Symptoms of Mild to Moderate Dehydration
     Once their dehydration worsens, children may begin to feel tired, restless, and irritable, which makes it difficult to get them to drink more fluids. Other signs and symptoms of mild to moderate dehydration, for which you should usually call your Pediatrician, include:
     
     
   • increased thirst
     
   • a dry mouth and tongue
     
   • decreased urine output
     
   • 3 to 9 percent weight loss
     
   • normal to increased heart rate and pulses, normal to fast breathing, and cool extremities
     
   • capillary refill greater than 2 seconds
     
   • recoil on skin turgor test in less than 2 seconds
     
   • slightly sunken eyes (and/or fontanel in a baby)
     
     Symptoms of Severe Dehydration
     Severe dehydration is a medical emergency and you should seek immediate medical attention. These children appear lethargic (meaning they are difficult to keep awake) or may be unconscious. They also may have:
     
     
   • poor drinking or may be unable to drink
     
   • a parched mouth and tongue
     
   • minimal or no urine output
     
   • greater than 9 percent weight loss
     
   • increased heart rate, weak pulses, deep breathing, and cool, mottled extremities
     
   • capillary refill that is very prolonged or minimal
     
   • recoil on skin turgor test in more than 2 seconds
     
   • deeply sunken eyes (and/or fontanel in a baby)

[nymphadora]

Lot better this am. Seemed to turn at 3am with a HUGE pop then feed!

Bit snuffly but more herself & having a lovely chat with the light now