Is it normal for a 4 yr old boy to be so bl**dy cheeky????

[tiredemma]

....or is it just me?

just recently ds1 (age5 in sept) has started back-chatting, shouting etc.
He starts school in sept and i know that he is not worried about it, he cant wait in fact, he has told me that he hates nursery now as he is the eldest there and bored.

His attitude recently is at the very least embarrasing, he was always really good and polite, a few days ago he asked for some juice, i was about to make him some and he shouted- "for goodness sake, did you hear me? I want some juice" !

he is spiteful to his little brother- only when he thinks i am not looking, kind of sly. A few days ago his nursery leader pulled me to one side and said that he had been caught swearing with another boy and i heard him myself call ds2 a "bitch" yesterday.

He is wearing me out, i feel like im constantly on at him for his behaviour( he just laughs at me if i tell him off) and im worried that when he starts school he will make himself labelled the horrible little boy that disrupts the class.

Short of calling supernanny jo out im at a loss as to how i can change his attitude before i give him away to barnardo's!!!! ( that is a joke of course- i love him but want the little placid boy back- not this monster)

[Carla]

Where do you think he hears words like 'bitch' from? I'm assuming he's the eldest, and as he's the eldest at nursery that it doesn't come from an older brother. Any hunches?

[bosscat]

mine is 3 and a half and maybe not in the same zone of naughtiness but does shout, is very cheeky and can be really hurtful playing people off against each other. I'm hoping its just a phase as there are flashes of loveliness from time to time. I did figure out a few weeks ago though that I had been spending less time with him since birth of baby brother and so I made a huge effort to make him the 'special' one again and he is much more affectionate towards me even kissing me which is UNHEARD OF in this house. he's still cheeky but I guess he is 3!

[tiredemma]

he has definetly heard the word bitch at nursery, he told me of a friend that says "mommy and daddy" words and obviously wanted to get a reaction from me.
He used to be so loving towards everyone, he has changed so much in the past 6 months, sometimes he looks at me as if im off another planet or im annoying him.

[helsy]

It may calm down when he starts school - some of it may well be to do with him being the oldest at nursery and being bored.

We got this to a lesser extent - but pushing the boundaries, nevertheless, and I'm afraid we tried lots of stuff before finding the thing that hurt dd1, which was taking toys away after warnings.

Pasta points also worked short term (she identified what would be 5 good things for her to do and we put them on the chart and she got points for doing each one and a small present when she got to 50), but only when we all did it.

[Merlin]

I can identify with that Bosscat. My DS1's behavior has taken a turn for the worse since the arrival of DS2 3 months ago. He is definitely feeling 'pushed out', and will do anything to get my attention, which of course usually involves him doing something naughty!

I too am having to make a real conscious effort to do something specific with him alone, but it is very hard to do in between everything else!

Tiredemma - my DS2 picks up all sorts of words and phrases from nursery - nothing as bad as 'bitch' (yet!), but tends to be anything to do with bodily functions and toilet habits! I'm sure once they start school it will improve a bit, they will have plenty of new things to occupy themselves with!

I do try though not to make too big a deal about it when he says something I don't like - make him understand that it is not a nice thing to say, but with my DS the more I draw attention to it the more he will say it!

[wordsmith]

Oh tiredemma, this sounds so familiar. It happened to my DS1 roundabout his 5th birthday when he'd been at school for a couple of months. Apparently it's a phase but he's still going through it5 months later. Also get the same sly spitefulness thing with his baby brother, although 90% of the time he cuddles him and loves him to bits.

I wouldn't worry about him 'infecting' the other kids at school - they will be 10 times worse. I had DS1's school report this week (end of reception year) - he sounded like such a little angel I wanted to ask if they'd got the right child!

I think it's a growth thing. Apparently boys have a huge testosterone surge at 4 and a half (so I have heard) and it must be very confusing for them. If I sit back and rationalise it with my DS, I can see that he's coming into contact with a lot of new boys at school, many of whom have more toys/get away with more/are less disciplined than he is/does, and he's just pushing the boundaries.

Although it's pretty hard to rationalise it sometimes when he's winding you up like a corkscrew!! I can totally empathise with you feeling worn out.

All I can say is that the real little boy is the one underneath, and he's just pushing the boundaries, which is completely normal and would be strange if it were any other way. As long as you keep reinforcing the messages about inappropriate language and behaviour and keep reinforcing how much you love him and how fantastic he is, he will come through it in the end.

[tiredemma]

thanks everyone, its reassuring to know that i dont have the devil itself sleeping soundly upstairs.
I plan to have a week off work the week before he starts school so we can do things together and have some specialtime.

[wordsmith]

That's a fab idea. I'm taking the last week of the school hols to spend some one-on-one time with DS1 before school starts again. DS2 will be at nursery his usual 2 days a week and DS1 and I will just do stuff and go places together on our own. It's important that he still feels he's special, it often falls by the wayside when you have to looks after a younger, more demanding one too.

[Carla]

I probably wouldn't be bothered if DS was leaving, but on another note I would be furious if either of my two came home from nursery having learnt words like that. At the very least I'd expect the owner of the nursery to have a word with his parents.