Friends Ds just bullies my Ds..... so sad...

[QueenFlounce]

Posted this under the 39-42 wk Check-up title, but thought I'd retitle it more appropriately:


My friends ds just had his 39-42 wk assessment with the HV. He wouldn't sit down for any length of time, or concentrate. He wouldn't copy what she drew either, he chose to draw David Beckham instead! However, the assessment ended with NO conclusive results for anything!

The HV has told her that he had a serious problem with lack of concentration and perhaps shouldn't start school in August 2006. My friend got really angry and defensive and is now refusing to go back for another assessment!

I really think he would benefit from this. He is a very disruptive boy and if he isn't centre of attention he gets worse. My ds is 6 mths older than him and my ds is really scared of him! He hits/nips/scratches my ds all the time and my ds spends most of the time in his company crying! She won't discipline him though... she just asks him Why he did and makes him say sorry. He just does it again and again though. And he fully admits everything he has done likehe's very proud of it.

It is breaking my heart to see my ds being bullied like this and wonder if this behaviour is actually a sign of an underlying problem that the 39-42wk assessment may uncover.

[TracyK]

Is he like this with other children? do they go to nursery? I don't think I'd be letting my ds hang around with her ds anymore!

[oliveoil]

No advice but thought I would bump.

[jamiesam]

Hi
Not much help here I'm afraid, but it occurs to me, is your friend's ds in nursery? If so, do you know how they cope with his behaviour? It may be that he acts so badly for his mum because of the way she responds (and sadly your ds and you get the brunt of that) but that in a dispiplined environ of nursery or school, he is better? Maybe?

(on another but similar tack, it does worry me that our health auth has decided to invite parents to 'self-certify' that everythings ok - so you only get invited for formal assessment if you say that there's a problem.)

[Kidstrack2]

What age exactly is your ds I take it you mean't 39month checkup and not wks

[Kidstrack2]

Oh found my little book your ds must be about 3?

[Caligula]

TBH I'd discipline the child myself if my friend wouldn't do it. I'd either say to them "you mustn't do that because if you do, DS won't want to play with you anymore" while giving DS lots of attention and saying "if friend is being nasty to you, come and play with Mummy instead of him" all the while hoping that friend would take hint that her method is inadequate! I'd also say things like "If you do that again, little friend, x will happen" - then you have to think up a treat for your DS that scratchyboy won't get, so that you're not actually infringing on him, you're just giving ds something extra and nice - maybe stickers? ("DS will get a sticker and you won't get one. But if you can play nicely and not fight for fifteen minutes, you can both have a sticker". Would something like that work?)

[QueenFlounce]

They are only 3.5 and 4 so I don't really let them hang out at such. My friend comes round to visit me on a Wednesday and her ds is in tow. They play in my house. He was at ds's birthday party and behaved fine coz he had plenty of stimulation.... and his Dad was there.

She marched off to his Nursery after the assessment and asked them how his concentration is. They said that he is very very active and a bit like a whirlwind, they were not concerned about his development. I think they may be being polite regarding his behaviour! My friend can be quite...ahem... insistant when she wants to be.

I just can't take how violent he is all the time and seems to quite enjoy it! Even when he's playing it's always play fighting.... or dive tackling with a football and hurting my ds's legs.... or knocking him over.... or pinning him down until he cries! Just horrible. My ds is always saying to him "You're a bad boy, you've NOT to hit boys!".

She's my friend, but it's got to the stage where my DH is ready to go mental at him.

[QueenFlounce]

Caligula - I tell him off behind his Mums back. But he just laughed and when his Mum cam back he announced "I don't want Toby as a friend, I've been scratching him Mummy".... whilst smiling!

I honestly feel like leathering him!

[LIZS]

don't knwo specifically abotut he check up or the sort of smn it might highlight. hwoever fridn's dd was very similar at 3 1/2 ish and my dd who is 6 months younger often bore the brunt of it.

Personally I wouldn't read much into a 3 yr old not wanting to copy a drawing , particularly if they were still able to produce something else, certainly my ds wouldn't have been interested and whilst the concentration span (or lack of) may be an issue I suspect a lot of boys this age are similar. It sounds as if the HV has been a bit heavy handed, especially as regards school next year, and has now put them on the defensive.

Does he attack other children in the same way as your ds or does he just pick on him ? I found it equally frustrating when an apology was deemed enough by the other parent. Perhaps you need to take charge of the situation and limit the play dates if your ds is getting so upset, so that you go to more open social settings and can walk away and find a nicer playmate if needs be. In the meantime encourage your friend to see a different HV or GP, or if she has to go for another reason suggest she mentions his antisocial behaviour too.

[Kidstrack2]

Oh I hate these sort of situations as I am still in one. My friend has 2 boys and one is 8months older than my ds and the other is 8 months younger than ds, my ds is 6 and they are horrible to him at times. And i'm afraid to say it started at the same age as your ds. Eventually I had to have words with said friend as my son was miserable when they came over to play with him or should I say hit him. I def think the health visitor is correct in stating he should maybe start schooling next year and that way your ds won't be in same class or year as him thats surely a bonus!

[QueenFlounce]

I only ever see him with my ds really.... or in a a large group of kids. But at the soft play if a child starts crying my friend always says "Oh god whats he done now?". So must hit other kids too.

[QueenFlounce]

Kidstrack2 - The HV has suggested he gets kept back a year. He is 6 months younger than my ds.

Thankfully they won't be going to the same school anyway. >phew!<

I would be SO embarassed and so hard on my ds if I saw him scratch another child until they bled! Never mind when that child was merely sitting in his own house watching TV.

[Kidstrack2]

Certainly seems a little boisterous and he is a litlle younger than your ds too. But the 39mnth checkup is there to check his developing skills and if he couldn't sit and take some small instructions to do the checkup the HV must think there is something underlying as she wouldn't have said so. I def think you need to start saying to this little boy things like don't hit thats not nice, why did you hit him, I say this to my friends sons while she is there and she does agree all be it slightly with what I'm saying. My friend is not good at telling her children off, but a few weeks ago I exploded as her son which is older kicked my ds in the stomach and she didn't tell him off. She said he didn't mean it but it was clear to see he did, she didn't make him say sorry or anything, so that evening I knocked on her door and told her exactly what I thought of her parenting skills.

[QueenFlounce]

That was brave of you Kidstrack2! I'm probably a little intimidated by her. She's also 7 mths pregnant.

I asked her ds why he hit my ds and he just said "I didn't." Then I said "Yes you did! Do you like making ** cry?" He replied "Yes". I said "Well thats not very nice".... he proceeded to get one of ds's toys and throw it behind the TV. His Mum was at the toilet and didn't see any of this.

[Kidstrack2]

Yes I suppose it was brave but after I left her house I shook for about 2hrs. But next day I was on top of the world as I told her exactly what I thought, and that is usually not me, but I think you get to a point and you can't take anymore especially when your kids are concerned. My said friend has 4kids and I have 2. She is 33 and I am 23. The thought of confronting a woman with more experience in life than me terrified me but I knew I had done the right thing. She is so laid back she is horizontal.

[QueenFlounce]

Are you still friends with her??

My friend is totally highly strung! I know she's embarrassed about the behaviour, but she just cannot seem to bring herself to do anything that might make him upset. He is so destructive too, there are NO boundaries. And it's my ds who seems to be his punch bag.

[Kidstrack2]

QF if he does more when his mum is out the room tell him your are speaking to his mum when she comes back into the room or telling his dad when you see him. Sounds as if little bot has got away with it far too long and no amount of telling off will bother him. It is so hard in this type of situation I hate it hate it soooo much.

[Sax]

did you read what I put on the other thread about asd? Has it been considered??? ASD children often come accross as 'naughty' children!!!

[QueenFlounce]

Sax - I didn't see that one sorry! I had thought about that.... but don't know enough about it. When he was only 18mtha old the HV suggested ADHD, but apparently ruled that out as he sleeps very well. Don't know how much that matters though.

[QueenFlounce]

She won't consider anything anyway. She said that the HV didn't know what she was talking about and is now refusing to go back for the follow-up appointment.

[Sax]

i don't know anything really about adhd but my ds1 being asd was told at his three yr check that he was totally within normal limits for age and was just an irritating and annoying little boy! - hes just been diagnosed but this is sometimes how it looks initially so worth her looking into - she may not want to though and if not maybe it will take until the nursery point it out or maybe when he goes to school. everyone is much more 'into' looking for asd these days so hopefully he will get picked up if he doesn't settle down, although he will be best helped the earlier the diagnosis the better.
Perhaps, try talking to your friend about it and mention certain traits of someone you know etc. and try to get her to admit he's pretty out of control?????

[Kidstrack2]

Thats so weird I was going to use punch bag! Yes I am still friends with her she said she respected me for telling her how I and ds felt. I basically told her that my ds is a lovely disiplined boy and I couldn't say the same of hers. I said my ds is not a human punch bag for her 2 sons to hit when and where they like. I said if that was my ds lifting his feet off the ground he would have been punished.Her argument was She said her son had not meant any malice by kicking my ds in the stomach, I told her feet are for walking and the only time feet should come off the ground is when they are lifted into bed and not kicking my ds. I also said if her ds as much as slapped, kicked, punched or just plain hit my son while I or her were present my ds would be made to her either of her ds back. She didn't agree with my attitude to it all saying I shouldn't teach my son to hit out and I told her she should be stopping her sons from hitting mine. I had an answer for everything she said and at the end of the day it was her sons who were bullying my ds and I wasn't prepared to let it happen anymore. It was put into practice a few weeks ago when said little boy ran and kicked my ds in the face when he was playing, his mother was there and all she said was oh Craig don't do that. I picked ds off the ground and said go and do exactly what craig done to you and he did, I was so proud of ds its the first time he has ever hit back. Friend said there was need need for that and I said there is every need and it will keep happening until your ds feet stay on the ground. Oh sorry that was so long.

[QueenFlounce]

Sax - I do think you're right. There is something a bit odd about his behaviour.

Kidstrack2 - Well done!! I'm going to speak to my ds tonight.... see if i can convince him to hit back!!

[Kidstrack2]

I will feel sad if this little boy has an underlying problem that hasn't been picked up, but at the same time his mum should be willing to except he may have a problem, she must surely look at how your ds behaves and think to herself has my ds got something wrong and at the same time she should be explaining to him it hurts when he hits friends.

[Sax]

I don' tthink that is the answer!!!! I'm sorry! No one should be encouraged to hit and it will make the other little boy worse tbh! I would get your ds to say he doesn't want to play with him if he is hitting!