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Behaviour/development

Could it be possible for an 8 year old not to know how to make friends/is this normal behaviour for an 8yo?

25 replies

jollyholly · 07/12/2008 22:41

My dd1 is 8 and doesn't enjoy school as she says she doesn't have any friends. She goes to a very small school and there are only two other girls in year 3 - 3 girls is never a good number anyway! She says she's left her friends behind in the infants, and wishes school was like Brownies where she has friends that run up to her, hug her, and can't wait to see her.

I've been thinking that as she has these friends at Brownies, and other friends out of school, that perhaps the problem is simply that the pool of potential friends is not big enough and perhaps we should look at moving schools.

But her behaviour this weekend has made me wonder - it's been her birthday, and she's been really nasty to her little sister, not letting her play with any of her new stuff etc etc. If she's like that with the kids at school then there's no wonder that they're not her friends. The girls at Brownies are in her six - perhaps they feel obliged to be so friendly with her?

We've been talking, and it's almost like she doesn't realise that she has to make the effort to be a friend. She's expecting kids to want to play with her, on her terms, and minimal compromise. Is this normal behaviour for an 8 year old?Thanks

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frannikin · 07/12/2008 22:52

If it's any consolation my 7yo (boy) charge is just like this. I've experienced it before and I've been a Brownie leader for nearly 8 years and a cub leader for 3 so have seen a fair few children of that age! IME the people in your six aren't obliged to be nice to you at all but it is part of the ethos of Brownies to be all-inclusive so maybe your dd1 is just responding to that and finding it easier to make friends when someone else makes the effort first? I don't think children do realise that it's an effort to be a friend and that someone has to initiate the process as it were. However they can only really learn that when they start making friends on their own without adult intervention, which is why God gave us Rainbows, Brownies, Beavers, Cubs and all the other group activities for children! The minimal compromise thing is something which I think can only really be learned once you have friends and someone stands up to you. Unfortunately that hasn't happened to my charge yet so he has a shock coming when someone does.

Has she had friends before who she is less close to now/have moved away recently? I've found that sometimes children who've recently lost friends can be very reluctant to make new ones as if they're scared of getting hurt again.

FWIW I think the birthday presents thing is pretty normal - it's her new stuff after all and she hasn't played with it yet, plus relationships with your siblings are always different to those with your peer group. That doesn't make it 'right' but I think it's pretty understandable. I wouldn't use her behaviour with her sister as an indicator of what she's like otherwise. If you really want to know what she's like why don't you offer to help out at Brownies for an evening and see how she is with her friends there?

It sounds like the problems at school are just from having 3 girls in the class - as you said it's never a good number and if the other 2 are friendly then no-one's initiating the friendship process with her and it's not surprising she doesn't know how.

It's great that you've talked to her about it - maybe she'll be able to take something from what you said and you'll have a happier dd1 for it

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scrooged · 07/12/2008 22:55

Social skills don't come naturally to some children so they need some help. Another mntter recommended a book to me several months ago, I used it with ds and it really did help. It's called the unwritten rules of friendship, there are chapters covering the bossy child and how to help them, the quiet child, the clown etc.

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jollyholly · 07/12/2008 23:05

scrooged, thanks, I'll look for that book.

Frannikin, thanks, that's very interesting. She's not lost a friend as such, but when she was in the infants she played with the younger girls rather than the other two in year 3 (who as you say are very close). Now, obviously, she's moved up to the juniors and left them behind. And yes, you're right about the birthday present thing - it was just hard seeing her so nasty with her 5yo sister.

Thanks for your help - I just needed to get things back in perspective.

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t875 · 07/12/2008 23:12

Hello! If its any help I have an 8 year old and since she has started juniors has struggled with the social element.

She is very intimidated by the bossy kids and has lost some of that coming forward making effort side of her. Mine also has 2 friends and they make a 3. She still plays with them but we really encourage her to make effort.

What i have been doing on the sly is when taking her into school i'll gee her up to go over to one of the friends she knows but cant be bothered/shy to talk too.

She is making more effort but I have had to gee her up..oh and positive affirmations like say to yourself I'm happy confident positive and assertive!

Good luck, hope its just a phase eh!

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purpleduck · 07/12/2008 23:34

hmmm, 3 doesn't sound like a very wide pool as you said.

If you were with 2 other women your age, would you automatically be friends with them just because you are the same age?
It sounds awful to be in a place all day nearly every day, and not have anyone that you click with... and that is the age where friendships start to really cement.

The behaviour with her sibling seems totally normal too.

Is there any way you could move her?

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jollyholly · 08/12/2008 21:05

Thank you everyone.

I'd like to move her, but dh is adamant that we shouldn't, and dd1 herself doesn't want to move (I don't think she can even imagine being at another school after being there for over 3 years). There's also dd2 to consider - she's in year 1 at the same school.

Then, of course, there's the issue of finding another school that's actually got room for them...

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StephanieByng · 08/12/2008 21:30

What does her teacher say about how she is at school with these girls/socially?

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jollyholly · 08/12/2008 21:46

Her teacher has tried to help - by getting the children to write down their favourite things on a piece of paper and move around the room until they found someone else with the same - no one had the same things as dd. So when that failed, she stood dd at the front of the class and told them ".. has no friends and is feeling lonely, who will play with her" Fortunately, some of the yr 5's put their hands up and played with her at playtime for a few minutes, then went back to their own games (basketball - dd is not a physical child at all!)

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StephanieByng · 08/12/2008 22:01

oh blimey the teacher does not sound a whole lot of use! The things she's come up with sound bizarre rather than helpful....

Is there a teaching assistant/helper who you could ask to keep an eye on dd and let you know how she is at playtimes etc? It's so difficult for you to judge isn't it when you're not there; and I'm not sure how much use that teacher's opinion will be!

Personally I would start to investigate other schools/visit them just so you have that in your back pocket. I know your DH is adamant you shouldn't move them, but why exactly? Any possibility that is based on a wish that if he says that, this problem will go away and he won't have to think about it?!?

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jollyholly · 08/12/2008 22:07

We've been to see the Head as well, and all she could suggest was sessions with the SENCO to try to bring up dd's confidence so that she will approach older children to play. So she had a few of those - but ironically she's not had one for three weeks and she's actually been less anxious without them!

I think I'm going to have to look at other schools, and perhaps bring it up with dh. A term's much too long to be unhappy when you're only 8.

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piscesmoon · 08/12/2008 22:10

Small schools have a lot of good points but it does give her a very limited supply of friends. If she had a large school with 3 parallel classes for each year she would probably have a pool of 45 possible friends. Even if she isn't good at being a friend she won't get much chance to practise with only 2 other girls in her year! I would be inclined to at least think of an alternative school.

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StephanieByng · 08/12/2008 22:12

Good luck jolly. I think sometimes it can be SO hard to think of rocking the boat and making such a big change but it sounds as if there is at least a possibility that it could be the right thing...she is clearly capable of having good friends who like her company and if school just can't provide that it must be grim.

I guess another possibility is sitting out the year - when she goes up to year 4 some of her friends will come into year 3 I guess? That may change the dynamics for her?

Sure she'll be fine though in the end - because you'll make sure of it, good for you!

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purpleduck · 09/12/2008 09:55

I would probably move her too - short term pain for long term gain and all that. Plus, This could happen to your other child too.
My kids go to a small school - one class each year, and the dynamics (boys:girls) changes so quickly.
Good Luck

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abraid · 09/12/2008 10:10

We moved my son from a small village school to a bigger boys' private school and one of the reasons was that there'd be more choice of friends. He still doesn't find it particularly easier but he's been happier at the new school and seems to have more fun at break time.

My daughter stayed at the school and has always been fine, but she finds making friends easier than he does.

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Notquitegrownup · 09/12/2008 10:15

DS1 was in a class with just 8 boys, most of whom knew each other, and he really struggled to establish friends. We were looking at alternative schools, but then 4 more boys joined the class and he has been a different child ever since.

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Gorionine · 09/12/2008 10:18

www.powells.com/biblio?show=TRADE%20PAPER:NEW:9780316917308:14.99

I have not read it yet but it is supposed to be a very good one.

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Gorionine · 09/12/2008 10:20

Sorry, just seen it has already been mentionned previously on the thread

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jollyholly · 09/12/2008 22:14

Thank you for all of your comments.

We've been to a Brownies and Rainbows carol concert tonight, and there's no way that her friendship with one of the girls, certainly, is not reciprocal - they spent the entire service with their heads together whispering

So, looks like I need to look at other schools. Anyone any tips on how to convince the rest of the family?

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abraid · 10/12/2008 15:44

Show 'em this thread!

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marialuisa · 10/12/2008 16:17

Odd as it may sound I don't think you should worry too much about your DD's views on this one. If she's not (understandably) very socially confident the thought of moving must be petrifying, "better the devil you know" and all that. I really wouldn't discuss it with her until you have a clear plan in your head. The real problem is your DH, why is he so adamant that she should stay where she is? Could you come up with a shortlist of schools (after doing some research/visits yourself) and present a clear solution to him, including how you'd deal with any problems he can come up with (my DH gets very hung up on logistics and "making our lives harder" for example)?

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motomoto · 10/12/2008 16:25

this is interesting as I have a dd rather like the OP's - she doesn't seem to really click with the other girls in her class, but there are 15 of them, so I wonder if it's just her personality - that she finds it hard to make friends

I've many times considered moving schools but what if it really was better the devil you know

and, also, what do you do if you have two children in different primary schools about dropping them off?

not an easy decision

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jollyholly · 10/12/2008 20:56

It's really not an easy decision. My friend has just moved her two out of the school for exactly the same reason - her son (in yr5) felt left out and isolated. But again, she's got a younger dd and she's had to move her as well.

Hi Marialuisa (lifts fake glasses and moustache) it's me in disguise! I had to change my name (long story) but I'm sure you recognise my complaints - I'm still going on about the same issues I was back in Sept/Oct when we came to the open day! Things haven't improved as you can see - except that now she is sleeping better, which is a bonus for all of us.

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marialuisa · 11/12/2008 08:27

Thought it might be but didn't want to ask outright! Sorry things haven't improved significantly .

Even if my DD's place isn't the answer, I really think you need to look elsewhere. My dsis is in Y4 and recently moved from a super-small school (35 kids, 1 other girl in her year group, 4 girls in total in the junior class) to a single year entry village school (28 in the class, 12 girls). We've always thought she was super shy and struggled with making friends but she's a different girl and so happy now. Mum was worried about moving her (and her dad downright opposed) but it's transformed her.

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jollyholly · 11/12/2008 22:43

Think I need to start a thread asking for people's positive experiences when changing schools!

I loved your school, Marialuisa, if it were up to me I'd send them there like a shot. I'm seeing my cousin next weekend, and her dd1's in Yr 5 there, so I shall probably feel even stronger about it then!

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leenasmom · 11/12/2008 22:59

oh my god =... im new on this site and this op seems to be a bit close to home...

I have a daughter who will be 6 in jan... she always complained in nursery that she had no friends and i put it down to her not wanting to go as my son was at home.. i told the nursery teachers who told me not to worry it was a phase... three yrs later shes in year 2 in a inner city school (plenty of children around) and she still comes home upset that no-one played with her.. from what she tells me about school i found she would not eve consider playing with girls and likes to play with the boys...who dont really want a girl around all the time ... i get her come home and say she and joe played and the next day he went of to play with paul... ive talked to the teachers who still tell me its a phase and when i tell them well shes been in this phase for 3 yrs + they put it down to her personality... the thing is she isnt being bullied and when the teacher asked the other children who was leenas' friend they all said they were?? so i to would love some guidence in this as i dontwant her spending time in school not being happy...(it is so bad that i have to bring her home at lunch so she is not alone for the full lunch hour), the teachers think they have done there bit and i sometimes feel and am seen like a over anxious parent whenever i bring up the subject again...

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