Worry about suspected sexual behaviour?????

[bignose]

My friend had a get toghether yesterday.She has a dd who is 4yrs and shge had a friend round of the same age.The two girls went upstairs to play.After a while my friend went up to see how they were.
She walked in to find they had made a bed on the floor with blankets etc.Both girls were under the covers.The visting child had taken off her pants.Friends dd was holding a polly pocket figure and she laughed and said "she told me to put it in her bum" (her=visting girl) (bum=vagina).
Friend said "oh no-put your clothes back".
She decided to talk to dd later and said come downstairs for snacks.
Later friend was putting dd to bed shge spoke to her and asked her about it.She said "what were you and ##### doing"
Dd replied that "I wanted to play docs and nurses but she wanted to play the bum game"
She then said that the girl had made her play the bum game at playschool in secret before.She kept saying it wasnt her idea.
Friends dd has never done this with anyone else or even mentioned this before.
what does everyone think?

[bubblagirl]

i dont know this would concern me deeply though as children usually do experiment as they no no different but to have a name for it would make me think this has happened before but in what way i wouldnt like to speculate i just wouldnt be comfortable children are not naturally sexual unless she has felt herself and it felt good but in an innocent good way and its turned into a game

or someone on outside has played this game with her

[hollyandnoah]

I don't know what i would do in your situation.
Who said 'on no put your clothes back on' ? was it your friend of dd's friend?

[kerryk]

the secret bit would worry me.

my dd is 4 and she would not know what a secret was.

sounds like someone may have used this expression to the little girl before.

[ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe]

Tell your daughter that she isn't too take her pants off when playing and if anyone wants to play a game with her, that she doesn't want to play, she can say no.

I wouldn't let them play upstairs unsupervised if you feel it may happen again.

Not sure how you could mention it to friend's mum without her thinking you were saying bad things about her daughter.

Lots of childrenm play games like this and it is fine but putting things inside the body is not fine in my book.

[bignose]

It was my friend who had invited us who said it kerryk

[lulumama]

there is always the fine line between normal curiosity about bodies. and the realisation that things can go in the vagina.. does not mean it is sexual or sinister. four year olds are curious and it is not necessarily a sign of anything untoward. however, your DD needs to know she can and must say no to games and behaviour that is not comfortable and that bodies , in particular, vaginas, bottoms - private areas, are theirs and they do not show tehm to others or put things in there

[Rhonds]

I think you have to speak to the mother about it because she can then sensecheck that the child was playing innocently iyswim and not (god forbid)repeating a game someone else had played with her.

[bignose]

There is no way that this can be approached with mum.It would just be far too uncomfortable.

[dinny]

my nearly 4 year old and his best friend are obsessed with comparing their willies atm

they also play "babies" which involves taking their pants off

when my sis and I were young we use to play "bum inspectors"

but the secret bit would concern me.

[3andnomore]

hm...it is worrying about the secrecy thing...otherwise I would just say curiosity...

[maidezmoi]

I remember playing a game like this with my female friends when I was about 6. It was totally innocent and I have never been sexually abused.

Oh and lol@ Dinny's "bum inspectors".

[meandmyjoe]

I really think it's normal. Me and my sister were always doing things like this . We shared a bedroom and quite often used to do stuff naked and compare bits, fiddle with bits but it wasn't sexual, just experimenting I suppose. But I must admit we never put things UP if you know what I mean!!! I think I was about 16 before I finally figured out exactly where my vagina was! The secret bit does sound a bit sinister though.

[3andnomore]

but how old were you and if you did this this young did you know to do it eretely?

Maybe it is different with boys...but my 4 and almost 6 year old son have no problems showing of their willies and playing with them....so, no secretcy...even though I tried to explain that those things should be done in private....

[bythepowerofgreyskull]

I know you don't think you can mention it to the mother but I would personally be very tempted to (in a light hearted manner)
say, " You know DD said the funniest thing the other day.. she says they have a new game.. called the bum game!!"
check her reaction see what transpires..

I don't personally think it is something sinister however she may know something that you don't and may have concerns about her daughter that she hasn't shared with you.

[chipmonkey]

PMSL at the "bum inspectors"
I am a bit surprised that she knew things could go "up there" . At that age, I certainly didn't know that.

[3andnomore]

me neither, tbh....but tbh...that could still be harmless......but to know to keep a secret

[Elibean]

A word of caution about jumping to conclusions on the secret bit: we have told dd that its better to do her experimenting in private (ie not on a train when bored, for example!) than in public. Could a 4 yr old not muddle 'private' with 'secret'??

My 4.5 yr old definitely enjoys the idea of secrets with her friends (though none involving genitals so far), they're just at the age when they want grown-ups to stay out of their games, and it seems totally normal to me that they do - at least occasionally.

That said, I would definitely want to know, if I was the Mum of the dd's friend....just in case...is it really so uncomfortable to tell her?? I can't think of any of dd's friends' Mums that I couldn't mention something like that to, and we're not all close friends or anything.

[3andnomore]

but a secret at four is a...snigger, snigger...can't ttell you normally...isn't it?
Not actually knowing what a serious secret is without telling...I might be completley wrong, and obviously all could be harmless, but if that was me in op, I would try to find out more, etc...

[TheRealMrsJohnSimm]

As much as the mother may be mortified by a conversation relating to her daughter playing these kinds of games, I absolutely believe that you have a responsibility to find some way of discussing it with her. As others have said, this could be entirely innocent and pure experimental/exploratory play. However, it could be something far worse and that needs to be addressed and ruled out.

[Elibean]

Yes, usually a degree of sniggering involved - though it depends, if they're doing something they half think I might stop them doing, they just do it quietly (eg picking flowers)

As I said though, I would definitely talk to the Mum about it - feeling uncomfortable or not.

[harpsichordcarrier]

I think it is pretty normal too, and the suggestion that children aren't sexual or that they aren't interested in this kind of experimentation is absolute nonsense.
also, having secrets is in all likelihood innocent too.
there is a huge risk of blowing this whole incident out of proportion. by all means have a chat with the mother, but I would rein in the shock-horror and just treat it as what it is - absolutely normal behaviour

[wahwah]

I don't want to be alarmist, but the insertion of objects and secrets are setting off alarm bells. If this was your child would you want to know what was going on? Of course you would, if only to rule out anything sinister.

The supervision at preschool sounds pretty slack too and would be worth addressing. These sorts of 'games' can spread like wildfire among children, so it could be that the behaviour came from there in any case.

I think your friend needs to take a deep breath and do what needs to be done.

[Frangipani74]

1 in 3 girls and 1 in 7 boys are sexually abused before they reach the age of 18 - some estimates are lower than this, but the point is there is a lot more abuse happening than most of us are aware of.

As a survivor of childhood sexaul abuse I would say that you have a responsibility to talk to this child's mother. It may be all totally innocent but it might not be. I wish my mum had been aware of what was happening to me.

[mrz]

Sorry I know a lot of people are saying this is normal but if something like this happened in school we would have to report it. As Frangipani it can be one of the first signs.

[Frangipani74]

Is this child in the same nursery or school as your child, you could inform their teacher to alert them to keep an eye out for any further unusual sexual behaviour.

These things can be awkward to talk about, but please do something, abuse thrives because it is so frequently swept under the carpet because it's uncomfortable.