Is it just boys?

[M155PIGGY]

I'm at my whits end and do not know what to do next. I have 3 DS aged 18m / 4 / 5 and they are running wild and out of control. No matter what I try, be it softly softly or disciplinarian it does not matter. My house is a total wreck, all their christmas toys have been destroyed and the neighbours complain about the noise even though we live in a semi and next door are out at work all day. Anyone got any ideas how to regain some control?

[SenoraPostrophe]

My two are younger than yours, but I thought i's stick my hap'orth in anyway...

Boys are generally rowdier than girls, yes. But all christmas toys being destroyed already, and noise so loud the neighbours complain doesn't sound right (or are they very sensitive neighbours?)

When you say you've tried softly softly and disciplinarian, what do you mean exactly? No approach works if you don't do it consistently and as if you mean it.

[M155PIGGY]

I spent most of last year pushing discipline for the boys but I ended up feeling that it was bringing their self-esteem down so have I spent the last 5 months being kind but firm with the boys and offering suitable punishments for inappropriate behaviour in a consistent way ie if I said it one day I made sure I kept to it the next and didn't give in to pressure from them or anyone else but nothing changed. I made sure that I always praised them for being thoughtful or well behaved and tried to find something good to praise them for every day instead of criticising everything.
DS1 is basically a good boy as long as DS2 is not around but goes wild when together. DS2 is the problem as he just runs wild and does not listen to a word that is said to him. He plays rough - too rough - all the time and smashes his toys together or into walls and furniture all the time. I have tried taking toys away from him or giving them to charity to help him understand that toys are a priviledge that others may not have and should be taken care of but he is not bothered about losing them or them being broken.
When we are out the 3 of them all scream and shout at the same time and DS2 runs off when I ask him to walk with us. I have tried stickers and star charts for good behaviour but it only works for 1 day and then they revert to the way they were. I am almost afraid to leave the house with the 3 of them and look for excuses all the time.
DS3 is only little and I am terrified he will grow up to think that this is all acceptible and normal behaviour. I really am close to breaking point.

[SenoraPostrophe]

sounds like you're doing the right things. Is it at all possible that your ds2 is hyperactive? You could ask your GP about it, or alternatively you could try things like cutting out sweets/certain additives or feeding him fish oil (or giving him sardines twice a week).

I am no expert on this: why don't you post a question in the special needs topic? (mind you I could be completely wrong about the hyperactivity / ADHD - the Special needs mums will know more than me.

[SoupDragon]

Here I go again with my favourite suggestion... Have you tried usina a pasta jar reward system? DSs are nearly 6 and nearly 4 and every Saturday morning, they get 5 pieces of pasta in their jars. During the week they can earn extra pieces or lose them for "bad" behaviour. On Saturday morning, we count the pieces, they get 10p for each piece and the jars are reset to 5 pieces. I've foind this works really well when I stick to it^ and remember to use it as both reward and punishment - the offer of extra pasta for doing something or the threat to take it away if naughtiness is repeated seems to be successful. It's also important to do the pocket money bit too or it loses the significance. Obviously you can trade the pasta for something other than money at the end of the week.

But yes, my DSs are noisy, rowdy, full of energy and posessed of mercurial temperaments swtching from angel to devil and back again in seconds. Especially DS2.

[ernest]

well, I'm in the same position as you, with 3 boys about the same age - 15 months, 4 & 5, and again, alone they are great, but atm together they are hellish. I'm back at the not being able to go to the toilet in peace stage. I have passed my breaking point and have spent the last 2 days in tears and for the 1st time contemplating getting a job, because I just can't handle it at the moment. One piece of advice i was given was to treat small boys like puppies, firm discipline, lots of attention and 2 hours exercise a day. Easier said than done when you've got a little one. Mine isn't walking yet, dunno if yours is & just getting out of the door is hassle enough & smallest just won't sit in a pushchair with no attention while I give the eldest their exercise.

So my moan might not make you feel better, proably worse, sorry, but hey, at least we both know we're not the only ones.

My dh constantly complains about they noise - maybe you can buy ear plugs for yourself & the neighbours?

[emmatmg]

I feel exactly the same as you ernest, including being in tears about it recently. My DS's are 5(nearly 6), 3.8month and 17 months.

I simply haven't got the energy to fight my case with them(DS1 in particular) any more as EVERYTHING I say goes in one ear and out the other. I think every day "Right we'll try again" and within an hour of getting out of bed I'm thinking "F*cking hell....I really must be invisible" because they completely ignore me even when I shout and believe me I can really shout. I can also ask nicely and plead and beg but it still doesn't work.

Like you Mi55piggy, I dread the little one learning the same behaviour.

I've got to the stage where I can't be bothered to argue with them (him) any more and just try get on with life in the best way I can, stumbling from one mad day to the next.

[KatieinSpain]

Soupdragon - love the pasta jar thing - .

M155PIGGY, could it just be a phase? You know the testosterone surge in DS2? Does it make any difference when you have just you and him time? Does he behave any better with anyone else? Has he started school? Could you use a nursery as time out to keep your sanity? It sounds really tough - hope someone on here can help.

[maisystar]

i have one ds who is 4 and 2 months, i wouldn't quite say he is running wild but is definately erm... boistorous also rude(calls me horrid head, selfish etc etc) and not particularly good at doing as he is asked-everything is a fight iyswim.

am gonna try the pasta jar idea (cheers sd )

i think it is a boy thing though(obivously with exceptions). at a recent 4th birthday party we went to, the boys were all fighting, whacking each other with ballons and shouting. the girls were all listening to the party games instructions and playing 'nicely' together!

[ernest]

what really gets to me is I tell eg ds2 not to do something & 2 seconds later he either does it again, or ds1 does it. i mean, if it's not ok for 1 to do it, why does the other think it's ok for them to? And why do I have to say it over & over again. i'm sick of listening to myself....

I start off every single day thinking "today will be better. Today I will not loose my temper. Today I will be a good mum" and I can usually hold it together till mid-afternoon, then it all goes tits-up, I loose my temper, then that's me finished off for the rest of the day, their main memory is me being an angry mad cow and I feel a failure. Then every evening I feel miserable for being so crap & we do the same thing all over again the next day.

And my boys aren't that bad...............

[Gobbledigook]

Oh no, just read your first post and I'm scared. My ds's are 4, 2 and 5 months but when the little one is up and running it's going to get worse isn't it?! DS1 and 2 are already running out of control - arrrghghghghghggh!

This morning they've been jumping in and out of the wardrobes and have broken my plastic box that holds all my work papers by sitting in it pretending it's a boat!

Sorry, no advice but will follow this thread with interest!

[emmatmg]

"their main memory is me being an angry mad cow and I feel a failure. Then every evening I feel miserable for being so crap & we do the same thing all over again the next day."


Ernest, I think exactly the same.

[Gobbledigook]

Emma - your second para could have been written by me!

[Gobbledigook]

Ernest - I'm totally with you here!!!

Every day I think 'today I'll be calm, I'll be nice' - by the end of breakfast I've had enough!

[JoolsToo]

Gobbledigook - NO - its not just boys tra-la-la [rolls eyes] emoticon

[Gobbledigook]

Bloody is. None of the girls I know behave like the boys - there is a very clear distinction when we meet up and when we go to parties - they behave totally differently on the whole!

I was an angel anyway - what are you trying to say!? I was influenced by naughty brothers

[JoolsToo]

GDG - you NEVER stopped bloody rabbitting (still haven't )- that is FAR more draining than a bit of boisterous behaviour - which you weren't behind the door in doing either!

[Gobbledigook]

Yeah but ds1 is a boy AND he rabbits for England! The child never shuts up!

Not that I'm complaining - it's good that he talks of course!

[JoolsToo]

yes he IS a boy but he got that trait from you, a GIRL .

just line the walls with rubber and let them bounce off!

[Gobbledigook]

Today is going to be hell as car is in for MOT so I'm housebound!! Not really garden weather either - roll on summer!

[JoolsToo]

its beautiful here!

[Gobbledigook]

Good for you! We'll see you in 1.5 hrs then if that's OK?!

[scampadoodle]

God, I thought I was the only one who felt like this (what a wonderful thing mumsnet is!) & I've only got 2 ds's (3.5 & 8m). Ds1 can behave so well but also be a right pain in the ase - cheeky, rude, not listening, loud, throwing things, being mean to his little brother (who is really too young to be a 'problem'). However, I find ds1 is much much worse if kept in the house for long periods so it is essential to get him out at least twice a day, either side of ds2's long nap. This can be to the park, or soft play, to the shops, on the bus, to a friend's house... & out of the house he generally behaves pretty well. I agree though, it's difficult for ds2 being in the buggy for ages.

Many people have told me that (allegedly) boys are "difficult" when v young but easier later, whereas girls give you a smoother ride initially but the teenage years can be hell!

[ernest]

but getting them out of the house when either 1 of the 3 or any combination is poorly, which we've had the last 2 weeks - or even if they're all well but the weather's bad, and you're knackered. Leaving the house with 3 kids really takes some effort. and right now I've got 1 poorly kid, no help & no motivation.

sorry you feel the same emmatmg & Gobbledigook.

if you find a solution m155piggy.

[scampadoodle]

Oh yeah, if the weather's bad or they're ill, or you're ill, you're b*ggered!

[Catilla]

I'm not one to give advice as I'm only just starting on this journey (DS is 7m) but this fits last night's "Little Angels" perfectly so since no-one else has mentioned it I'll try to remember a summary.

Scenario was a single mum of 3yo triplets, two boys & a girl. Boys rowdiest but girl also joining in. Complete chaos, all exhausted, basically confined to the house, too scared to take them out alone.

After structuring mealtimes (setting positive expectations & giving praise rather than only negative commentary) and bedtime (calm bath/book etc and repeated placing back in bed; closing door for 1min if get out of bed) they worked on controlling the chaos.

Key thing (as in all Little Angels programmes as far as I can see) was time-outs. This one used 3 steps - having more than one child to keep an eye on clearly makes it harder. First stand in the corner. If child wouldn't stay in the corner, sit on the stair. They used a timer "sit here until this timer goes off" so mum could be back with the other kids. If still wouldn't stay put, shut in a safe room for 1min per year of age. That's the really hard bit and you have to stay holding the door handle and suffering the crying. Seems to work though, at least on these programmes.

The other main thing they showed was when out and about and the kids ran riot & wouldn't come back. After a running around game with a knotted rope to hold onto (showing that fun can be had near mum) She used wrist reins to keep them near, then let them free but kept occupied (at the zoo, lots of commentary) and then waved flag to get them to come back (avoids endless shouting). Sticker rewards for coming back.

I hope some of that is helpful to someone. I wish you all luck and cross my fingers for myself in a few years time :-)

Ducking for cover now... no idea what Mumsnetters think of these programmes. Too rosy maybe??