Talk

Advanced search

Absolutely desperate - can't cope with ds1 (5) and ds2 (3) together anymore

(36 Posts)
smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 17:32:12

This is probably a familiar story but I'm just at the end of my tether and in need of advice asap please.
DS1 and Ds2 are fantastic when they're alone. Both very bright, sparky children who require lots of entertainment/stimulation etc. When they are together however, they just become unbearable. They get in a spiral of behaviour which invlves wrestling /pulling around(usually ending up with one of them getting hurt), ignoring me whenever I ask them to stop until I shout it, laughing hysterically when I try to tell them off especiallyt when I'm enraged. THis happens at home and outside the home, but invariably it's in front of people and I always look as if I have absolutely no parenting skills whatsoever but believe me I've tried them all to get around this.
I've tried the quiet stern/threatening voice, I've tried the angry stare +/- threats/removal of priviliges(?sp), reward charts, "thinking time /time out" and I just don't know what to try next.
THey are current;y both in their rooms after they both arsed around in the doctors surgery resulting in them on the floor wrestling each other, when I got them in the car ds2 deliberately squirted his orange carton all over the window and door, when I shouted at him he just pissed himself laughing. WHen I got them in the house, ds1 banged the door open and it rebounded onto his cheek, so whilst I'm conforting him ds2 thinks this is hilarious and deliberately does the same so that his head bangs on it - twice - after being told No the first time. I came in and put them both in their rooms.

Ds1 will always apologise within 5 mins and be properly sorry, but this doesn't translate into changed behaviour next time around. ds2 just thinks this is a huge joke.
I amd starting to just despair and am shocked by how angry this is making me at the time. I had to go in the bathroom and calm down before I broke one of the house doors through slamming it so hard.
We've always tried to use positive parenting, but sometimes I just want them to behave when theyre asked to and just bloody well stop when they're told.
Please can someone help me because I'm afraifd one of them is going to really hurt them selves soon when they arse around because they just don't have any spatial awareness and bang into things and just won't stop.
Ds2 is just recovering from fratured femur when ds1 tripped him up, I mean, how much more do I have to say to them to hammer this home - their behaviour has already hurt one of them and if they don't listen to me when I say stop it's going to happen again.
sorry this is so long, but I needed to get this out whilst they're in their rooms. Helps me get rid of my anger too.
Any tips?
TIA
I might have to go away from pc soon to sort them out but willkeep checking back

Tortington Tue 12-Aug-08 17:35:28

i think everytime they are naughty you should take them on a long walk - with no talking.

one on either side - whatever the weather

no talking

keep your resolve.

give them 3 chances on the fourth - -don't say a work, coat hats, out.

DoubleBluff Tue 12-Aug-08 17:36:12

I have 2 DS's with similar age gap.
Positive parenting is all weel and good, but sometimes you have to shout and let them know that you are bloody angry.
They have to know when theyhave GONE TOO FAR and that is not acceptable!
Alos getting htem outside as much as possible on their bikes etc, wear them out so when they do come in they are pooped.
We have a trampoline which is great!

msdemeanor Tue 12-Aug-08 17:36:25

It's the fricking summer holidays, that's what it is. Just the same in my house. Numerous threads all from people feeling just the same as you. It is normal for children to become utterly feral during the holidays, humiliating their poor helpless parents. If I had any idea how to help, I would give it, but I don't. I am hiding right now with the laptop while kids watch Cbeebies. I love them very dearly, but right now would happily sell them to a factory to make clothes for Primark. That would teach 'em!
Roll on September!

msdemeanor Tue 12-Aug-08 17:37:08

This will reassure you!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/67/584709

luckylady74 Tue 12-Aug-08 17:49:06

good advice re walks and firm voice.
Before it gets to that stage I suggest planning most days like a military op - we have a timetable that even includes school type bits and going to the shops - my ds1 has special needs but the 3yr old twins appreciate it too.
I take out on every outing (even to the local shop/park) my bag with drinks lots of small snacks and fiddley toys.
I try and avert silliness with conversations about what we'll do next and what they'd like to do and how they'll help me and so on.
Or I turn it into a race/ spiderman challenge that involves sending them in opposite directions or working together.

smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 17:50:25

Good advice re: the walk. Ds1 is almost always outside playing football etc., and today has been a miserable day weather wise so he hasn't had that. Maybe that would work. However, it's not like they've been cooped up all day today. I took them to granparents which they love then took them to the cinema...but all ds1 could do was whinge and whine afterwards about wanting coke and not being able to have it.
But yes, quiet walk in teh rain might sort them out. But what about strategies for sorting the behaviour there and then and not just the aftermath?

I've just been and had a talk with them, told them what I expect and why I got so annoyed. They did as they always do and say sorry, promise not to do it again. I got so upset though and started crying - just couldn't help it.
I just feel like I've totally failed in my parenting approach. WE've always tried to be positive but I just feel like it's done u s no good whatsoever.

It does help to know I'm not alone, as my sister's children are always so well behaved by comarison (although this is acheived through punishments ++/smacking and total loss of independence). I always feel like it is just me with the children who won't sit still/stop when they're told etc.
I tried a more relaxed approach and look where it got me!. Please god tell me it's just a phase.

moosemama Tue 12-Aug-08 17:52:33

As the proud owner of a very similar post about my 2 DSs (6) and (4) on my antenatal thread, just wanted to stop by and offer my sympathy.

Sorry don't have any advice really, would be a bit hypocritical considering my own situation. blush

As msdemeanor said there seems to be a lot of very similar threads around today - at least we can all take comfort in knowing we are not alone. In my saner moments I try to remember that these things tend to be phases that they come into and grow out of. At least they'll be too tired to fight for the first couple of weeks back at school.

My DH has just come home and dolled out wellies and raincoats before turfing the little darlings into the back garden where he can watch them while HE cooks tea. (It seems I looked that bad when he came in!)

What scares me is the arrival of DC3 in January - Oh My Lord what have we done!

smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 17:52:37

luckylady - good advice - I try to do that - i.e. today - Grandparents, cinema, car full of puzzle books/colouring in books. TOmorrow swimming, football. etc., Distraction works sometimes, I should probably use it more but sometimes am I being unreasonable to expect that just once in a while they will just stop because I've asked them to?

smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 17:56:06

Better go and make some tea, they've been entertaining themselves all this time, so better see if I can turn it around. Might go for a walk afterwards...yes, think I'll do that.
Look forward to further advice and feel free to post on here if you just want to add your horror stories from today - looks like it would make a few of us feel less like the worst parents in the world!

luckylady74 Tue 12-Aug-08 18:03:29

no you're not being unreasonable, but then again your youngest is only 3 and they've been entertaining themselves for a bit so there is hope!
It is very hard and imho my boys are harder than my dd in this respect (she never wants to wrestle!).
You sound like you're trying really hard and you need a break - can you divide and conquer? Send one to grandparents/ football/ whatever or both to separate things and you sit down?

alannahsmummy Tue 12-Aug-08 18:09:56

This could be my thread,
dd 6.9, ds 2.10.
dd worse out of both, torments does not listen ignores me, strops, noisey and talks non stop so you don't get 2 mins peace. ds is slowley starting to copy although he is great without dd around.
We don't get invited to houses/playdates im sure relatives hide when we call.

Feel like running away and giving her away.
How sad

msdemeanor Tue 12-Aug-08 18:18:12

We could set up our own factory with all these awful kids grin
Fab! Get 'em trained up and we can compete on price with China. What do you say, get 'em making toys or clothes?

smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 19:49:52

alannahsmummy - sad for you too. Do you have anyone you can call on to divide and conquer? Ds2 is in nursery tomorrow so I'm taking ds1 to sort out school shoes on his own and have a game of football with him. I just know he'll be fine tomorrow (so will ds2 in nursery) but the minute I collect him they will start winding each other up/pulling/tormenting/being silly.

Hopefully now they're in bed I can recharge and plan my strategy for tomorrow.
Think I'll dust down my copy of "how to talk" tonight.

meemar Tue 12-Aug-08 20:06:18

smoggie I feel for you smile. Since the summer holidays started my DS1 (5) and DS2 (nearly 3) have been total pains.

They alternate between bickering and ganging up together to cause mess/chaos and believing it's one big joke.

DS2 is 'naughtier' of the two, and DS1 eggs him on and gets him to do things which will result in a telling off. Like yours, DS1 is always 'really really sorry mummy' afterwards hmm. Until next time.

They have starting messing about at bedtime, (which they never did during term time) and star chart has gone out the window because I've lost the will to carry on with it.

Thank god there are only 3 weeks to go. I've never shouted as much as I have recently blush

Othersideofthechannel Tue 12-Aug-08 20:08:34

Have you read 'sibling rivalry'?

I think there's a bit about wrestling that basically says teach them to tell the other when they've had enough and leave them to it.

smoggie Tue 12-Aug-08 20:33:40

otherside of the channel....ahhhhhhhh, I bought that as a job lot with "how to listen", but naively haven't read it yet as there hadn't been a problem until now...and I'd forgotten I had it!!
Looks like I'll be burning the midnight oil tonight.
Meemar if I pick up any gems from the books I'll post them here!

popsycal Tue 12-Aug-08 20:38:14

this could be me
ds1 was 6 last week and ds2 is almost 3 and a hakf
so loud, rough, bickerring, etc
fresh air and LOTS of walking helps but isnt always possible (34 weeks pregnant!)

i feel your pain

Othersideofthechannel Tue 12-Aug-08 20:39:33

Good luck, it's horrible when one turns into 'shouty mum'.
It really gets my goat when DS laughs at me when I am trying to explain how dangerous what he is doing is.

VirginiaWoolf Tue 12-Aug-08 20:47:01

Hmm, the high point (!?!) of yesterday for me was hearing an angry voice bellowing, "We don't shout in this house!" and realising that unfortunately it was mine......

meemar Tue 12-Aug-08 21:21:45

I can tell it's bad in our house too.

DS2's favourite game at the moment is telling random toys "you have to sit on the step for 2 minutes for being naughty." or "no shouting at bedtime or you won't get a sticker" blush

Ready4anotherCoffee Wed 13-Aug-08 00:01:45

ooooh, don't get me started. My current one is if you do/don't do xyz you'll get a time-out has resulted in ds (4.5) pestering for one.

I have to go to homebase to get stuff to fix the dds wardrobe after ds and dd1 trashed the dds bedroom and wrecked the wardrobe, then sat laughing manically. <grrrr> the steam from my ears can be seen in John O'Groats!

It's the egging each other on that is driving me potty!

smoggie Thu 14-Aug-08 15:50:17

Well, update - boys were OK (ish yeaterday) as one was in nursery and I had the oldest all day to get school shoes etc. All OK......until we went to my mum and dads after collecting ds1's swimming certificate (cue lots of praise and encouragement). They both did their usual thing of getting over excited and silly culminating in ds1 walking all over the muddy front garden (after being told not to), then flicking his shoe at the open front door splattering said door and hallway with mud!
When I called him to come and sort it out, he laughed, ran away and refused t ocome.......4 times.
I'm afraid to say I lost it and grabbed hold of him and pulled him back into the house to have a little chat. I gave him some kitchen roll and to be fair he did clear it up, but I was shaking with anger. I think it's just the downright defiance that does it....the laughing when I'm enraged just adds insult to injury.
Anyway, after continued namecalling of me "stupid fat warthog" being the one that sticks on my mind I kept a stony silence all the way home in the car.
Dh gave him a good talking to and after a few more mini wobblers he calmed down and BIG apologies. We had a few really good chats with him and dh in partic to his credit was fantastic.
So, new day and new resolve.
We decided last night that my anger was mainly at not being seen by others (my parents/neighbour) to be in charge of them and in control, that they just didn't have any fear of me or my voice. THen decided actually is that such a bad thing (the fear I mean)?
So, new policy is to just tell them that we're not happy with what they're doing and outline what I expect them to do (i.e. clear it up and apologise) and just sit an wait until it has finished. I think they seem to thrive on getting an angry reactiuon from me, so the hope is, that if they don't get that reaction they will calm down and rectify the situation sooner.
God, it's going to be hard.
I've already put it into practice once today - they both decided it was HILARIOUS to scoop handfulls of the decorative stones from the front garden and put them in the porch, so I told them I didn't want them to do it, they kept going so I said "if you want to carry on, then I just want you to know that it will take you longer to clear it up at the end". They soon got bored and ds1 realised that the clearing up took MUCH longer than the initial fun of putting them there. He also was V annoyed at ds2 who didn't help to clear them up. Lesson learned ther eI think...for now anyway. Calmer house today, still silly bits, but I think I'm handling them differently and they can see it doesn't get to me as much.
Fingers crossed.
How's everyone else doing?

MilaMae Thu 14-Aug-08 16:37:08

We're doing ok-ish!!!!! grin Mila of shoe shopping thread grinThey are a lot better today,towing the line more(combination of my rants sinking in and new sticker charts) but I'm knackered and an irritable old bag,any patience I ever had has disappeared completely after this weeks events.

I'm a little sad that I have to be such an old dragon in order to make them behave at times and feel crap as have errupted a few times today(sometimes more than the crime warranted). Want to be one of those mums that never raises her voice,smiles serenely and just has to use THE glare from time to time. Sadly not to be methinks.

Feel like I could do with a week in a darkened room now. Made the mistake of getting the stamper pens out, now asking myself if 5 mins of peace was worth 3 kids covered in ink stamps and a flood in the kitchen as they washed off.

Has stopped raining this pm so they are off the ceiling excited that they can play in the garden. Can hear twin 1 shouting "die,die"!!!!! shock Let's hope it's just a game grin

Well it's Friday tomorrow-yippee so will have dp around to help however we have a 5 hour journey to Surrey (sob)and a week at the in-laws to tackle. Just dragged them down to the Co-op to stock up on wine, terrified MIL won't have any in!!!!!

HonoriaGlossop Thu 14-Aug-08 16:41:49

Yes I think it is REALLY hard when you feel shown up and embarrassed by your own kids - it is a powerful need to NOT be seen in what seems to you an embarrassing light by other people.

I must say though, that I am always MOST impressed by people who talk to their children calmly and politely even when they are being awful; 99% of adults out there have been there and actually do understand so it's good to remember that and not get too hung up on how you are seen when in public. Adults whose good opinion is worth anything wouldn't expect a lively 5 and 3 yr old to drop everything at one word from their parent, they understand that parenting is a bit more complicated than that!

I've known since I had DS how important it is to remain calm even when incredibly provoked; and this holiday (DS has had lots of visitors, playdates, and a party and a day out etc etc!) has shown me both in RL and various threads on here how CALM is the key. No, not 100% possible as we are human, but basically smoggie what you did today was remain calm - which helped you present the facts to the boys in a way they immediately related to - the tidying up! - and also did not whip them up into ever greater frenzy. They do feed off adults' anger...

well done to you I say, they sound like they have been HARD going this holiday!

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now