DD2 is a Pain In The Arse and not nice to be around, how do I improve matters at home?

[Oliveoil]

she is 4 in August, so 3.10yrs

does some sort of madness descend at this age?

she has always been, erm, feisty, but OH MY GOODNESS, atm is just dreadful

she will not do anything she is asked, I am on pins waiting for the next eruption

and this morning she got up at 4.50am, refused to stay in bed, I ended up in tears of frustration and got up and went downstairs at 5.30am

dh in mood, dd1 playing up due to atmosphere - she realises dd2 is getting the attention for being a PITA and wants some I think

so all in all, crapamumdo

I am going to move into the wheelybin in the garden and rock backwards and forwards, please help me make dd2 nice to be around

I thank you
x

[Thomcat]

Hello sweet

Oh blimey, you poor thing. I have to say i have a sneaky suspicion that I have all this in store for me.

I can think of nothing useful to suggest tbh.

Your such as sensible soul I know you will have tried everything logical.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Oliveoil]

it is everything TC, absolutely everything

I pick my battles but sometimes she MUST do as she is told

she had a huge strop in the park on Saturday (she picked the 'wrong' ice cream) and then lay face down on the grass when we refused to buy another one, right in front of the cafe so everyone had a clear view of her strop and me seething away

now surely that is behaviour of a toddler (say 2) not a nearly-4-year-old?

I am tempted to stay at work today and get home after she is in bed!

[desperatehousewifetoo]

My 6yr old ds still has strops and lays down on floor. At least he tends to have them mostly at home and not in public now!

I think a good shout sometimes helps (me!) and after a really bad day, I have been known to shut myself in the kitchen and not let anyone else in. Usually leaving both children outside pushing against the door and screaming.

I wonder why our neighbours never stay very long?

The most effective threat with my two is 'i'm going to count to 3. If you don't do x, I shall put your y toy in the cupboard/won't watch tv tomorrow'. The toy must be their favourite one and it stays in 'the cupboard' for 24hours. It is a huge cupbaord and has been filled with quite a few things at once, from both of them!

Works well for both 6yr old and 3 yr old but obviously have to choose the right toy. For my ds it is the playstation/nintendo and for 3yr old dd it is her barbie dvds/princess figures/no cbeebies.

Good luck!!

[Oliveoil]

we have banned tv and any treats, dh told his mum the same but I doubt she will follow instructions

most days I count down the hours until they are in bed and surely that is bad?

they fight from the minute they wake up until the minute they go to bed

yesterday, I set up a little camp for them in the garden, huge beach umbrella and drew some flowers and wrote "dd1" and "dd2" on the floor with chalk as a surprise by the sandpit

they argued who could sit where and hit each other with spades (plastic!) and eventually I bellowed at them to come inside

so I end up thinking, why the fcuk do I bother doing nice things when it ends up shite anyway?

have some work to do so will be back, god knows how I am getting anything done zzzzzzzzz

[desperatehousewifetoo]

A couple more thoughts.

Try to find things to praise them for. Even little things. Well done for putting your socks on, that's really good that you helped your sister, you are walking really nicely holding my hand, good girl for putting that toy away.

Get them to play in different rooms? One gets to play outside first, then after half hour they change over.

Can you and your dh take one each at w/e for a couple of hours? You each do things in your pairs, shopping, park. This might give each of you some fun time again without the arguments and break the cycle. Swap children the next day or weekend.

I don't do any of this, of course. I find the shouting much more therapeutic!

[Thomcat]

Oh darling

I sometimes count the hours too, and yeah that is horrid. On their own my eldest 2 are fine, put them together and they just wind each other up. Apart they cry for each other, together they bicker and clash. It's soooooo draining, I really feel for you.

I can only think to say that firm boudaries are the only way but they are not a short term cure. Is there a short term cure????? I don't know of one. Other than the obvious ignoring bad behaviour for a short time then it's time out and praising good behaviour and reinforcing that over and over. It's how I try and get through the day but sometimes the smallest thing can then suddenly make me snap.

Do you get opportunities to be on your own with her, take her out on your own and while out tell her how lovely it is to be with her when she is not having a strop?

[squinny101]

Oh my god you have my children. Except they are a boy and a girl.

They argue over everything? The other day they even argued over who had the biggest cardboard box they were playing in.

I have started separating them. They say that they like playing together but how can this be true when all they do is try and kill each other.

Every morning I wake up determined to be all calm and nicey nice. It goes tits up.

I have come to the conclusion that that is children. I will have my revenge when they are cleaning up my drool in old age.

[Thomcat]

So while they were hitting each other did you intervene and give them a warning as to what would happen if they didn't stop or has your patience worn that thin they hit each other and you shouted at them to come in?

[Thomcat]

LOL and ditto you guys. Mine argued over whose snow it was last time it snowed! They are 2 and 6 (with SN's).

They play with water, DD1 soaks DD2 and
DD2 walks away screaming, and DD1 goes mad crying 'come back come back'.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

[Oliveoil]

I do the praising thing and it works sometimes but not all the time

I have time alone with dd2 every Mon and Fri afternoon until I get dd1 from school, she is ok(ish) then but still can be a PITA tbh

when they were arguing in the garden, I tried to make peace and it worked for 5 mins, I went back in to prepare dinner and WW3 broke out. Dd2 came (leaving sand everywhere) and then dd1 followed her 10 mins after and they kicked off indoors as well

my patience wears out quite quickly and I find it soooooooooooo tedious trying to be jolly and stop arguments and sometimes I just shout as it works

they were arguing this morning about who had more room on the table! I warned them that I had been up for over 2 hours and was not to be messed with so the advice would be to SHUT UP AND STOP FIGHTING

(our neighbours must think we are horrible)

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[Twinkie1]

Give them each a time out place and when they start figthing they both go to their individual place - away from each otjer until they can be nice to each other regardless of who started the arguement.

Above all don't get stressed or shout - remain eerily calm - this super freaks them out - and you have to carry on until whatever punishment/behavior altering technique you use works.

[squinny101]

Oliveoil where do you live? I have become increasingly paranoid about our neighbours. I refer to them as Mr and Mrs Perfect. They have the most idyllic life although they do only have one child.

I compare them to the Flanders (we are the Simpsons).

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[HonoriaGlossop]

You're right, sometimes kids need to do as they're told; so long as you really only fight important battles. If that reuslts in meltdown, then it does - you can't control the response. You just have to try to let it wash over you though I know that is impossible at times. I think the ice cream behaviour is totally age appropriate actually (sorry!) in fact at two many children are far more biddable and reasonable than they are at 3 or 4. They get a stronger will and want to exert themselves more.

I think you have to remove yourself from the shame of that sort of public situation. People DO look but so what. I think there's alot to be gained by being sympathetic to the child as in "oh dear I'm sorry you're feeling so awful." Then you just sit down and wait it out. You can be calm and reasonable; you are not involved in the tantrum, only she is - and people can't judge you for that.

Maybe you could lower your expectations...I mean, kids this age DO squabble. It doesn't mean that the nice things you do are not worth doing.

I agree it is a really good idea to praise them and build them up to each other even for tiny little things - tell them how much the other child loves them or thinks they're clever, etc etc - even if not true! They will believe it and it will foster good feelings between them. I think eventually this sort of approach helps them to learn to accommodate each other and stop the bickering.

[HonoriaGlossop]

squinny that sounds fascinating - how is their life idyllic?

I only have one child and my life is FAR from idyllic

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[HonoriaGlossop]

well I expect there was a mum-of-ten judging you for being late for school with only 3 kids and only for a poxy nosebleed

[squinny101]

don't want to hijack.

Their life seems idyllic. They are always speaking in sing song voices to each other. Have never heard the child once have a tantrum. She is always out in the garden picking flowers and stuff for her mum.

My dd is out in the garden pulling the heads off flowers and seeking out cat poo.

I swear they avoid us like the plague! I am a little paranoid though.

When my children are driving me mental and believe me I have been to the edge and back most days and when I can. I take them to the park. They can scream and shout at each other as much as they like there.

(can you hear the rattle of pills).

[WendyWeber]

On days when I was feeling strong and in control I would just say pleasantly - as often as necessary - "I'm not interested. Go and sort it out yourselves"

It worked too. But a) I never felt in control that often and b) I would often forget how well it worked and c) they can always tell when you are not being a Master of the Universe and the little sods darlings home right in on that.

[HonoriaGlossop]

they sound annoying! Something wrong with that child - your dd sounds normal

[Oliveoil]

cod

1. I agree, I do waffle on
2. They are INCAPABLE of playing alone, seriously, forever pestering me (I have moaned about this on MN before)
3. I have that, will re-read
4. I do this already (and tbh she is not the 'trouble-causer' in the main)
5. What do you do when they don't do it the second time you ask?

I have just spoken to dh and he seems quite perky but reminded me that we argued over haloumi cheese last night and we laughed about how children send you mad

how the hell do you argue about haloumi cheese fgs, good job we can laugh about it

also, re sending them to their rooms etc, what do you do when they refuse to go? as then you disobeying twice, once for the reason they are being sent, and again for not going (iyswim)

do you drag them upstairs?

have not done naughty steps etc as I am a lets-all-have-a-chat type

[ponders whether lack of discipline has caused PITA status]

[BEAUTlFUL]

I'm like you, and my children are like yours. It's our fault, we are too soft for ages then sudddenly explode. We should be firm all the time then wouldn't need to go to either extreme.

I don't know what to suggest. I'm really quite crap at the discipline side of things.

[desperatehousewifetoo]

Yes, I have been known to drag mine to their rooms but ds in loft so too far! i also have pinned my son onto the stairs when he kept running up them instead of waiting out his time. Now he is older, I just tell him that his 6mins will start again each time he moves - soon gets the message.

[BEAUTlFUL]

Was DD1 like this at that age? I must say, I really didn't enjoy DS1 at all from his 3rd birthday till his 5th. I'm going to be so fabulous with DS2, firm but fair, a serene sergeant major. He's only 4 months old at the moment but I've already set up a "naughty cot" for him. (No I haven't.)

I need to find out how that bloke kept his daughter underground for 28 years. Obviously not the incest stuff, but how do we build those tunnels? That would solve a lot of problems.