tantrums at 21 months - to ignore or not to ignore?

[canella]

just started over the last week or so - i've got 2 older dc's but they've never been like this. He can scream and sob for half an hour - today's one was because he wanted an apple just before dinner so i offered him a bit of carrot instead ( he normally eats them but def not today!) so i ignored him and i ignored him some more then i played on the floor with his toys then i told him if he didint stop i would put him on the naughty step. he didint stop so i tried to put him there but he was writhing about so much i ended up putting him in his cot. I ignored him for a good while then came downstairs and got him his dummy.
I was annoyed at myself for giving him his dummy cause he only has it for sleeps but i just felt cuddling would start even more tantrums in the future. but i'd ignored it for ages and it was just never stopping.
Is 21 months too young for ignoring/naughty step or should i have picked him up and held him tight?

[KnickersOnMaHead]

Message withdrawn

[hunkermunker]

I will disagree with KOMH.

I think at this age, tantrums can be scary for children - the strength of emotion can be overwhelming and what works best - and I mean this in the sense of "what is best for the child and will help them learn to deal with their emotions in a positive way" is to hold them tight and talk calmly to them. I tend to face DS2 away from me, put my arms round his middle and wait for him to calm down (he's 2.4).

Too young for naughty step at this age, imo.

Also, choose your battles. You say this tantrum was because he wanted an apple before dinner. You were prepared to give him carrot. Why not a slice of apple?

[KnickersOnMaHead]

Message withdrawn

[MrsThierryHenry]

Would you say you've set firm boundaries for him in general? This would affect the decisions you make about how to handle tantrums. If he's used to you giving him what he wants when he's just being difficult, you'd prob need to address the whole area of discip, not just the tantrums.

Though from what you've said it doesn't sound like you cave in. I agree with hunker that tantrums can be scary, but you know your child best and you know what's going on each time he throws one.

My DS (18mos) gets 2mins in his high chair when he disobeys us. No toys, back turned to us. It took about a day or two and now he responds well both after the punishment itself and when we warn him 'if you don't do x, you'll get 2 mins in your chair'. I don't think 21 mos is too early at all - as soon as they start to show signs of wilfulness in a bad way that should be the time you start to plan how you will handle discipline, in keeping with what you think they can handle and will respond to. I also threaten to take my DS's toys out of his hands if he's naughty. First couple of days I did it, he got really upset. But after that he knew the score and so doesn't really mess with that warning anymore.

I should add (before I start to sound like a despot) that we also have a hilarious and silly time with our DS, it's not all about control and conformity in our household!!

[MrsThierryHenry]

Ahem - taking toys out of his hands is again only for 2 mins, not forever!

[bcsnowpea]

MrsThierry you've given me some nice ideas about how to handle my own 18m ds. He is very willfull and we've just had no idea how to handle it some times. We try the old 'distract him' technique that's a carry over from when he was younger, but now it just doesn't work. DH and I really need a united front, but we're only just starting to have the discipline conversation. Thanks for the ideas!

[MrsThierryHenry]

Any time, BC! We also use distraction - I think you basically have a range of options like a deck of cards, and pick out the one which you think is most appropriate to the situation. Works for us, anyway.

Good luck one and all!

[Nursejo]

i agree all children are different,but if you start at a young age they get to grips with things quickly.We started with DD1 at 18mths,with a Naughty step,worked fantastically.We felt really mean,but she learnt very quickly so we didnt have to enforce it often,sometimes the threat is enough if they know you will carry it out.We are now starting with DD2 as she is 19mths,seems to be working already.... Above all,whatever you choose to do Be Consistent,as this is the only thing that really works IMO.

[canella]

sorry i didnt reply yest - another bad day of tantrums!but thanks for all your replies - some really good ideas!
but i've now been up since 5.15 - he woke up screaming! so i gave him some milk and his eyes were still closed so i went to put him back in his cot and the screaming resumed! i then tried to cuddle him and he was just going mad - arching his back and hitting out. i know i should just have let him get up and start the day but he was in the full throws of another tantrum. i told him if he didint stop crying i was putting him back in his cot - no stop so he's in his cot - i put the light on a little and gave him some books (something he would have loved this time last week) but he's still screaming! and screaming "mummy" just to break my heart.
i had to come on here just to let off some steam - i'm feeling like i'm dealing with it the right way for him by ignoring - i think he would like being held too much. its just the hardest thing in the world but i've two other little ones (not here this week - gone to grandparents with dh) and i feel i need to settle him while they're not here to listen to all this.

he seems to be quieting down a little .......oh no typed too soon!

still got a full day at work to do today - i dont imagine i'll be in a great mood! wish supernanny would just come and sort it out!

[EffiePerine]

Canella: we have the screaming fits in the morning as well (6am this morning which is late for us!). We bring him into bed with us, which can work for about half an hour, then the only way is to get up and get breakfast. Otherwise he just works himself up into a major tantrum.

I would carry on giving plenty of cuddles and reassurance, esp when he;s behaving well . A lot of it with DS is frustration, so while I try to ignore tantrums if he gets really upset he gets a cuddle. It's strange the things that set them off .

I'm trying not to be too strict and chose my battles - it's easy to get into the pattern of saying no and battling ALL the time.

[hunkermunker]

He is a little boy - you think he would "like" being held too much?

Are you punishing him for having powerful emotions?

[beanstalk]

I looked up this thread with interest because my DD (17 months) threw her first almighty tantrum this morning. Ah the milestones of parenthood
Anyway, I truly believe that tantrums at this age are more about frustration (probably not being able to communicate being a major one) than downright naughtiness. It seems natural to me to reassure and cuddle than to punish at this stage - so totally with you hunker. That said I was taken off guard this morning and not entirely sure how to handle tantrums in a gentle way - any alternative suggestions anyone?
btw, my DD's tantrum this morning turned out to be pacified by her sitting to eat breakfast on a 'grown up' chair at the table rather than her high chair. Is it just her way of telling me she's ready to grow up a bit?!

[MrsThierryHenry]

I think what's most beneficial is a healthy balance between loving support and setting firm boundaries.

We all know that our children are little scientists by nature - everything they learn is by trial and error. When it comes to tantrums/ naughtiness/ issues of discipline, they are again being scientists - they're trying what works and they will learn from our response. We can choose to either teach them to manage their behaviour or pacify them. If it's the latter, how can they learn what is socially acceptable? Surely the age at which they should learn this from us is the age at which they start behaving in ways that are not socially acceptable, right? If your child learned to walk in a way that was going to damage his/her spine (okay, silly example but stay with me) when would you correct them? Before or after they've established their way of walking?

When my DS throws tantrums I find that it's crucial to stop and observe what's going on in order to work out why he's so upset. For instance it's currently either teething/ wanting what he wants NOW/ something currently unfathomable! Once I know the cause of the tantrum I'm then in a position to work out the best way to deal with it - a one size fits all policy is simply not the ideal here. I think it's important (sometimes, but not always) to acknowledge his feelings when I can get a word in edgeways ('I know you're upset because you dropped your car...') - by this he learns to identify his own feelings.

After that my responsibility is to help him to learn from that tantrum - e.g. - 'you keep on dropping the car deliberately (to test me). I won't give it to you any more, you have to pick it up yourself' (yes, this level of complexity works with an 18-month old!). Other times I might pick him up, cuddle him close and speak softly into his ear, telling him jokes or singing or doing whatever I know will help him to calm down. The important thing here is that having observed the situation I'm in the ideal position to decide which card to play for the best outcome.

If we don't set boundaries early on (and they're not the only ones who need the boundaries, we do too - we also need practice setting them as it's bloody hard to do!) then it becomes much, much harder later. It also becomes more confusing for the child, because by that point they've learned what we apparently think is okay behaviour, then all of a sudden, months later we're saying it's not okay any more. It may make sense to us to delay discipline until they're older, but from the child's perspective it's inconsistent and confusing.

[MKG]

I let them cry it out and realize it doesn't work.

A friend of mine tickled her ds when he started having a tantrum. He learned that screaming on the floor doesn't get him what he wants, but it does turn into a good time.

[canella]

thanks again for all your responses even the harsh ones hunkermunker! i'm sure some of you might have realised i was a bit stressed when i put that last post - i'd been listening to it for nearly an hour by that point!
i think there were a few issues that made his tantrums worse - we'd been away for the weekend so he was out his routine and overtired. on monday night he was hysterical about going to bed which he never is even up till last friday i would put him down in his cot and he would go to sleep. I think i got more stressed cause he wouldnt settle rather than being calm with him - i was shouting at him to go to sleep - the worst mothering ever! but htis then got the both of us more stressed - his tantrums were worse and my stress levels were thro the roof!
so i read what someone posted and decided to make the good times so good aand praise him for it and really to ignore the crying. I know you dont all agree but it seems to be working. We've had lovely couple of days and although he was making noises (no tears just shouting/crying) before sleeping last night he settled within 20 mins and he's just gone down for his nap like he has done for the last 21 months!!
thanks for all your support! and thanks for letting me let off steam! it really helped!

[MrsThierryHenry]

Ahh, you poor thing - I can just imagine how the stress could build upon more stress until you felt like things were out of control. Am really glad to hear that you've found a way to calm things down and that there's peace at home again. Well done, you clever mummy. Now pour yourself a well-deserved glass of the old rinto tinto and put your feet up in front of the telly.