10wo baby won't sleep during the day, any advice?

[derah]

I have a 10wo baby who has been difficult from the start. She used to cry all day every day unless she was in her sling, which nearly drove me insane but thankfully time and several cranial osteopath visits seem to have almost cured that problem! But she still won't go down during the day at all. She'll sleep for hours in the sling, but as soon as I put her in her moses basket she wakes up and cries. Sometimes she'll sleep for maybe 20 mins tops in there, but even those 20 mins of peace are few and far between.

She'll go maybe 15-20 mins in her baby gym, bouncy chair or swing chair before she starts crying, but then I don't really expect her attention span to be very long at this age so I can understand her getting bored and wanting out after a short time. But why won't she sleep?

It's hard enough having to hold her or carry her in a sling all day, but I also have a 2.7yo DD1 who isn't getting nearly enough attention from me. I really struggle to give her any 1-1 time without baby being in the way.

I've tried keeping the room dark and quiet, we've got a womb (white) noise toy bear that goes in her bed (though it only makes the noise for about 5 mins before it switches off). I've tried making sure she's really very deeply asleep before putting her in bed (this is when she'll stay down for 15-20 mins before the crying starts).

At night she's slept up to 7 hours, usually 4-6 hours at a time, in her bed, no problem. So why oh why won't she nap during the day unless I'm carrying her in the sling?!

[derah]

Anyone?

[TheProvincialLady]

A lot of people would probably disagree with me but I feel that the problem is not with your baby but with your expectations of her. She has spent 9 months attached to you and she is taking time to adjust to life outside the womb. She is soo young and whilst I completely understand how knackering and difficult it is for you (my DS was just the same), I think you may have to readjust your expectations a bit. She wants to be with you all the time and that's why she can't sleep without you. TBH she is doing well to sleep so much at night in her own bed.

If you had a decent sling you would find it a doddle to carry her all day so you could get on with other things and give attention to your 2 year old. What are you using at the moment?

This bit doesn't last long but it does feel like a lifetime! Gradually she will be happier to be put down for longer stretches. In the meantime I would go with what she needs. Good luck

[LynetteScavo]

I think if she's sleeping well, and can go 15 -20 mins without you, you are doing ok. some babies are just trickier than others.
It sounds like she loves you very much!

In the long term, you are going to need to get her to learn ot fall asleep by herself, unless you want to spend the next few years sitting with her to get her to sleep.(Fine if you have no other DC's). To do this you'll have to find a method that works for you.

Hopefully someone will sugest a book/ method in minute.

[TheProvincialLady]

The NCSS has some ideas for getting a baby to sleep separately...but don't worry that she is getting 'bad habits' yet if trying to put her down doesn't work. She is still too young and will be for ages yet.

[Sal22]

I'm interested to hear the answer to this one too - my 6 week old doesn't want to lie down in his bed / moses basket during the day - most of the time he will only be happy if I hold him. I reconed it's ok as he's so small, but then someone told me that it's because I'm teaching him bad habits by spoiling him, and that babies are clever enough to start expecting you to hold them all the time as a result. Surely it's still ok to go with what he wants at this stage? Or am I making trouble for myself? It's my first, so I've got the time, but I don't want to do the wrong thing.

[TheProvincialLady]

Sal22 go with your own instinct. There are always people who will tell you you are doing the wrong thing but one thing I learned very quickly with DS was that they didn't have to look after him, I did! You're his mum and unless you have asked for this kind of advice, tell them to zip it.

[MuffinMclay]

Do you put her down when she is showing signs of being tired - whinging, rubbing eyes, yawning etc? With ds2 (12 weeks) I've found that he sleeps better during the day if I put him down in the cot before the tiredness kicks in, and then he just drifts off to sleep in his own time. I know that he'll start getting tired about 2.5 hours after he last woke up, so pop him in the cot just before that. If I wait until he's tired there's lots of crying, needing to be picked up and patted, etc, and it all takes much longer.

[MabelMay]

Hi derah, I think the key is that you say you put your baby down when she is already asleep. So then she comes into a lighter sleep 10, 15, 20 minutes later and realises she's not where she was when she started to sleep (i.e. being rocked and held in your cosy arms).
She has to learn to get herself to sleep on her own in the moses basket or wherever it is you want to put her. This will probably mean that she'll cry for a bit as she cries herself down from tiredness to sleep. Are you happy to leave her crying for 5 or so minutes...? Also, after this - when/if she comes into the lighter sleep 20 minutes later and grumbles/cries a bit, try leaving her for a bit to settle herself back down.

I'm sorry if I'm suggesting things you already tried, but this happened with my ds if I put him down when he was already asleep. He would wake 10 or 20 minutes later screaming. But he never did this when I put him down awake, and it only took a few goes.

good luck

[derah]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I have tried putting her down as soon as she falls asleep, she just starts howling as soon as she's in bed. I will try putting her down before she's asleep, but there's a limit to how much time I can spend hovering over her bed settling her because then I'm ignoring DD1 during that time and she does get jealous and upset.

I've tried letting her cry it out with pats and dummies, and even just leaving her to it when I couldn't take any more, but she'll cry for over half an hour and that's as much as I could take without my heart breaking!

I have a really good sling (hug-a-bub) and I don't mind her being in it for some of the day, but I can't hug DD properly when she's in it, and I have to get her out to feed, take it off, put it back on again afterwards and it's a real faf to get on and off!!!

I guess we'll just have to leave things as they are for now. But DD1 used to nap in her bed so I'm just a bit confused as to why DD2 won't.

Hmmmm, far too many paragraphs starting with 'I'!!

[merryberry]

what mabel and muffin say. if gg goes past his going off point he will stay awake (thankfully just grumbling, not crying. my heart goes ut to you on that one). i do a feed, something with all three of us eye out for baby yawn or fist sucking, whip him straight to bed. he fusses a bit and settles himself, usually for 40-60 minutes. he started off needing to cuddled settle next to me on a bed, then i would just lie nearby reading or pottering in room. now i can just plonk and walk 4/5 times. the 5th time i need to do an extra suck/small feed for him to calm him down again. but i do always put him in bed awake. this only worked because ds1 was averse to be in same room to begin with and would play in his. and will now play quietly in the same room. we did shell out on a fair few very absorbing games for him - matching and alphabet stuff and things with a zillion crunchy pieces for us all to stand on. plus clever use of recorded cbeebies/milkshake etc. i go straight form baby to ds1 and catch up with his little world. shattering, but works mostly./

have had to talk myself out of any guilt about how he is getting on when i focus only on gg...and aim for a balance were everyone gets a bit of what they need. and dream of better times to come when they like each other and can play independetly toegther without us...

but tbh, we are out nearly every morning and the pram anaesthtises him. so i only do this in the pm. he gets his long sleep in the morning, rarely has another big nap in the pm.

[merryberry]

can you tell i was typing while talking to toddler about what kack-jack does, mummy? sorry, ask me to clarify anything needed

[merryberry]

jack-jack even. not kack-jack. ROFL.

[number1]

my DS was exactly the same, would only sleep on us; it was exhausting! I just kept trying and trying to put him down; i didn't get into a horrible cycle of down/pat/let cry which can drive us all to dementia. Everyday I tried to put him down for his nap, if he didn't go down I'd pick him up again and try again (depending on how strong I was feeling). One day he stayed and slept for 20min, then he wouldn't go down at all and eventually he started to sleep in the afternoon in his own cot.
Are you using a cot or a crib? I found that DS slept much better in a cot than the crib (but could've been just a coincidence)

I disagree with the whole theory that babies will want to sleep on you forever; do you know any 18 year olds that still want to sleep on their parent's arms?

[claireybee]

Don't know but ds is the same!

What MabelMay says sounds very sensible but I don't think it actually works like that for high needs babies-ds for example will never cry himself to sleep he will cry and cry and cry getting more and more frenzied. When I eventually pick him up he will eventually then settle and go to sleep if rocked. (I have left him crying for up to 45 minutes (checking on him periodically) before when he wouldn't stop screaming no matter what I did and I was so frustrated with him that I thought I was going to throw him against the wall but I hate myself for having done so-I don't think that crying for so long has helped him to settle at all!)

However although I still need to rock ds to sleep or put him in the sling I can now put him down as soon as he goes off and he often half wakes then settles himself back off-from here I hope he will start to go to bed awake in the not too distant future...

[Sariska]

I'm having a similar problem with my almost 8 week old DS but am having a certain amount of success with a baby hammock (the Amby one). If DS wakes up when in the hammock, the movement of the hammock (in conjunction with his white noise teddy) often sends him back to sleep. These hammocks aren't cheap but maybe you know someone with one that you could borrow to try out?

[TinkerbellesMum]

Wraps are wonderful, so that would have been my advice anyway have you tried back carries to free yourself up for DD1? I'm surprised you say that you can't hug DD1 with the wrap because at 10 weeks she shouldn't be taking up that much room. Have you been to a sling meet to see if anyone can help you out with positioning? One tip from me, without seeing you in the sling, is to put your rails (the bit that crosses over you at the front) on the outside as you can tie them tighter and have a lot more control.

You haven't said whether she is BF or FF. If she is BF you can feed in a wrap handsfree which helps to look after your other one.

I agree with TheProvincialLady. She's been inside you for nine months, it's understandable that she will want to be close to you.

Tink was very much the same. She had an expensive swing rather than a bouncy chair that didn't really get used. She rarely went into her moses in the day and would only go in it until her first feed in the night. Now she is very much the same. She is a very sociable and intelligent, I think that has a lot to do with it.

[Elk]

My dd2 was exactly the same during the day. She wouldn't sleep unless I held her, so I just held her reckoning it was a phase. She would also only go in her cot at night asleep. She just gradually relaxed and by 6/7 months she would sleep anywhere - cot/car/buggy/sitting room floor/plane during take-off quite happily (once she had a nap on the kitchen floor not quite sure how!).

Even now she does seem to need a long wind down to go to sleep, her big sister can go to sleep mid sentence but dd2 seems to lie quietly for up to an hour before dropping off.

[derah]

Tinksmum - the problem with hugging DD1 with DD2 in the wrap is that DD1 comes running in for a huge squishy hug and squashes DD1!!

I have been wondering if I can get her onto my back instead (I grew up in South Africa and watched the black ladies carry their LOs on their backs practically from day 1, and do everything with them in there - seems to be the way to go!) but don't know how to do it.

As for feeding in the sling, I'm just not sure how to get my t-shirt up to expose the breast with her in there. It would work if I wore button-up shirts I think. Perhaps I should head back to YouTube (where I found out how to tie the wrap in the first place) to look for feeding videos....

Clairey - your DS does sound a lot like DD2 - she'll just get more and more frenzied until she's picked up and settled. If you come up with a solution, let me know!

Number1 - she's in a moses basket. I can't really try a cot unless we get the travel cot out because the cot is currently in pieces in the loft, and I don't want to get it out and assemble it, only to find it doesn't work!! DD2 is in our room in the moses basket, but when she's bigger she'll move in with DD1 in the cot. Can't put her in there now though, cos the night wakes wouldn't be fair on DD1, and there isn't really room for a full cot in our room.

This evening I've bathed DD2 early (at 5:30), fed her, now she's having a play (grinning at her daddy while she swings in her swinging chair) and I'm going to try a top-up feed then into bed awake while DH baths DD1 at 7. Not hugely optimistic but worth a try!

[TinkerbellesMum]

Release your knot slightly (another way having rails on top helps), move her round so she's diagonally across your body, lean forward to take her weight on your arm and lift your top. Straighten up, latch her and then re-tighten the knot. Nursing tops are also useful as you don't have to lift everything up (H&M do them from £9.99 and far better than the ones I have from JoJo).

Have you tried having her on one side and telling big sister she needs to squishy hug you on the other side to her baby sister?

Back carries are quite easy, but you need to see them done really. At that age the best two options are lying on her by which I mean lie her on the bed on the centre of the sling and then lower yourself backwards on top (without weight bearing obviously), grab the sides and pull her against your back; or you can put her in the centre of the sling, hold it tight around her and throw her over your shoulder like Father Christmas! Have a look on YouTube, much better way to see how to do it! Make sure that you practice your chosen method(s) with some help before you do it solo.

If you can perfect the art of babywearing, it will give you a lot more time with your eldest as you won't have to give much to your youngest. It may be worth you checking out Sling Meet

[claireybee]

Derah I have been practicing back carries the last couple of days and they seem to be working-as soon as ds starts getting grumpy I tie him on and can then get on with stuff while he puts himself to sleep-much better than having to stop everything to rock him to sleep. Haven't quite got it down pat yet as need a mirror to get him tied on and sometimes it takes a couple of attempts but is worth it once he is on!

THink as Elk says it is just something they outgrow...

[derah]

Thanks again everyone.

Oddly, as has happened before, as soon as I've come on MN looking for advice on a problem, it has miraculously resolved itself! DD2 has been sleeping beautifully in her bed the past 2 days, during the day. Hooray!

I will definitely have a go a learning to feed her in the sling though cos if she is in there and needs a feed, it would be very helpful not to have to take her out. BF tops not really an option though, money is too tight for new clothes that aren't essential.

[NK5fb4587cX119c532cfc8]

my daughter is 19 weeks old and has been the same but it has never bothered me as she hs always done well at night, she has slept 12 hours from 3 months of age, so you might be lucky! I am a single mother and have an autistic 6 year old who needs constant attention but has to struggle by sometimes as my baby likes alot of attention too!I feel that older siblings survive having less attention and do adjust eventually{ although my son may never be able to}. my daughter has finally settled down to regular day time sleeps now she is on solids, i had to start early as she was so hungry. Good luck anyway!

[TinkerbellesMum]

Derah, if you go to Tescos (and probably other supermarkets too) and get a couple of t-shirts for £1.75 you can make nursing tops very easily and if you're not that good at sewing they can be interfaced. I'll look out the link I've used.