CM versus Nursery - difficult toddler - advice please

[Lakelover]

Hi
Just hoping for some advice on a dilemma I'm having with DS who is 22 months old. He currently goes to CM 1 day per week. He is extremely clingy with me and very difficult with people he doesn't know. he won't let anyone anywhere near him. Shoe shopping/haircuts/doctors visits are all totally nightmareish for him (and me!). It's taken him a long time to get used to CM and is now happy there. Trouble is, we now need childcare for him three days per week and CM can only do one extra day. My mum also has him one day a week and I'm worried about him being pushed from pillar to post. So - do we try and get him in nursery 1 day, grandma 1 day and CM 2 days, or nursery 3 days and grandma 1 day? My gut instinct is that continuity and consistency would be better, but then it's all going to be new and a very different environment from what he's grown used to. It's such a shame that CM can't fit him in for the extra day.... any advice would be gratefully received.

[posieflump]

do you have to work 4 days? could you do 3 days until the CM becomes available?

[cmotdibbler]

I'd say for a child that finds it hard to adapt, that 3 days a week in nursery would be better than only going 1 day a week where it will take an awful lot longer to settle in, and he'll forget what its like between times.

[TotalChaos]

3 days nursery, 1 day granma. Hopefully if he goes 3 days he will settle in better than he has done for the 1 day at cm.

[Pavlovthecat]

3 days at nursery is much better than CM and nursery IMO. Even difficult to settle children will adapt in time, as long as there is consistency, which your LO will get with 3 days in one place. And then one day with granny for family time.

That sounds ideal.

[mrsgboring]

Ack, there is no way I would put a clingy child into nursery. I tried with DS and it was a total disaster. The way I overheard the staff talking about other clingy children disappointed me to say the least. Research suggests that nursery is the worst childcare option and childminder the best for under 3s. Sensitive children are especially ill-suited to nursery environment.

So I'd vote for if you can't make it work to stay at existing CM, go for a new CM 3 days a week.

[Lakelover]

Thanks so much for your replies. Unfortunately I do have to do 4 days - I've already taken 6 weeks worth of Tuesdays as holiday while we try to sort this out - thanks to nice understanding boss..! I am going to see a new nursery down the road tomorrow so hope that'll be ok for him.

[aGalChangedHerName]

Can your CM not ask for a variation in her numbers to accommodate your ds?

[Pinchypants]

I would say go with nursery for three days for the consistency, on the proviso you find a nursery and a key worker there you feel really happy with. It might be hard on both of you while he settles in, but probably less confusing in the long run. Give it time: there are good nurseries with loving carers working in them. Worrying about nurseries being the 'worst' option is just something else for working mothers to feel guilty about when actually it doesn't sound like you have a lot of options if your CM isn't available and you have to work. Trust your instincts - you know what is best for you and your DS and you can always review in a few months if it really isn't working. And read 'Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety'.

[Lakelover]

Um - not sure about the numbers thing - she knows we're kind of desperate, so I'd assumed if she'd wanted to keep him on, she'd have done all she could to accommodate him- perhaps it's a good opportunity to stop looking after him without hurting our feelings - he is very hard work after all!!

[aGalChangedHerName]

If you and your ds like her i would ask her about the variation. She maybe doesn't know about having her numbers increased for existing children?

[Lakelover]

PS - thanks Pinchypants - that makes me feel better... it's hard not to feel guilty pretty much ALL the time having to pass him around for other people to look after - but I do try not to!

[Lakelover]

No - perhaps not aGal - I'll do that thanks..

[HonoriaGlossop]

I totally agree with mrsgboring - nursery sounds like the option which would suit him least and a new childminder for 3 days would, in the long run, provide more consistency and care that is more suited to his nature and preferences.

A new CM is what I would go for; after all, if you try nursery you're changing things ANYWAY, so why not make the change one to another childminder?

[mrsgboring]

What I said about nursery is absolutely not said to make you feel guilty. I just have got a DS similar and he couldn't cope with the nursery environment at all, and research backs me up that it is a harder environment. My childcare collapsed because nursery suggested that I might be happier with a childminder. I got a childminder but she could only do a short stint. DS did settle reasonably well for her, and I wish I'd started with a CM in the first place.

If your DS has trouble in shoe shops etc. do you think he would cope with the incredibly busy and comparatively high stress environment that nursery offers?

[Smee]

I'm with mrsqboring, as I have a similar boy too. I tried nursery too early and it made him far, far worse. I'd say get him a new childminder who can give him the time or bribe your mum to do 2 days not one if she's not working. Even pay her if you have to! And don't worry about him being clingy now. My DS is nearly four, has grown out of it and is thriving at nursery.

[tania111]

I feel I have to point out my experiences of childminder/nursery. I deliberately sent my son to a nursery rather than a childminder UNTIL HE COULD TALK. I felt alot safer that way - knowing that the rules and number of staff we would be well looked after.

When my son was 3 he started pre-school and the only way he could go was by having a childminder in the afternoons on the 3 days a week I worked. I thought everything was fine until one day he told me that she had left him and her two toddlers in the house alone while she went shopping with her eldest. My son was nearly four and knew what he was saying. THANK GOD HE COULD TALK. DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILD TO A CHILDMINDER HOWEVER WELL YOU THINK YOU KNOW HER UNTIL THEY CAN TALK!!!

[BoysAreLikeDogs]

Tania I am appalled that you have had this experience, but please please do not think that we are all like this.

Did you challenge the CM, report her to OFSTED?

[tania111]

ok course I don't think all childminders are like this. My son now goes to another childminder who I am very happy with but he is nearly 5 and I am able to talk to him about his day. I completely realise most childminders are highly responsible. However, there are some that are not and I thought the childminder I had at the time was good.

I do however remember some 'judgmental' other mothers telling me when me son was 18 months old and going through a shortlived but aggressive phase that it was because he was at nursery. I felt very angry at the time because my choice had been well thought out, wasn't ideal, but was for the very reason I have just mentioned (plus you never really know until the child is old enough to talk exactly what is going on during the day, do they get much attention, are they allowed to sit in dirty nappies for hours, are they sat in front of the tv for hours, does the childminder allow her husband to look after him who is not a childminder (another scenario that happened), does the childminder even like your child.

This particular childminder also let me down in other ways before this incident.

On balance to me, a nursery may not be the cosiest option but until a child can talk is the safest option.

And no, I didn't report her because how often is a 3/4 year old believed???

[vInTaGeVioLeT]

tania what a terrible experience for you - unfortunately though due to your negligence in not reporting this incidence/s someone else's child could now be experiencing this awful care.

and how naive you must be if you think that you don't get nursery workers who don't like the children they care for.

[HonoriaGlossop]

Yes, a really nasty experience for you and ds tania but as a responsible adult who knew that tiny children were being left alone it was a duty to report it, to protect the other children in her care

for the other parents who didn't know what you did and weren't able to pull their child out of it.

Not saying this to get at you because I realise this is negative but I do think you needed to report this, let alone ofsted, but to the police!

[mrsgboring]

tania that was part of the reason I chose a nursery too, as I thought there would be a sort of collective vigilance among the staff. However my experience was the opposite. Children can slip through the cracks with no-one taking responsibility. I was outright lied to by two different members of staff re using my DS's nappy cream (I know they were lying because the tube was still sealed when I collected it from nursery after we left but had twice been told specifically without my asking that they'd used it)

I know three different children (at two different nurseries) who have been left in a dirty nappy long enough to blister so hard it broke the skin.

You have to trust your childcare whatever the setting. If you can't, you can't leave them. I just found nursery was no insurance against poor childcare. Quite the reverse; they all seemed to cover up for one another. (also lots of threads on MN nurseries board where others have had this experience and been told things that were obviously lies)

I ended up having to give up my job because childcare arrangements collapsed spectacularly because DS was totally unsuited to nursery. I wish I'd started with a childminder.

[tania111]

luckily the nursery I choose was a well respected one (lots of research and recommendations from familly and friends) maybe unlike the ones you chose.

Re not reporting her -it was not my duty to report her HonoriaGlossop as she is no longer a childminder and had stopped by the time I found out but thanks for being so 'concerned' or should I say interfering. Really you not jump in before knowing the facts (maybe I've made you wonder about your own decisions???!!!)

For all of you who think they are doing the right thing by choosing a childminder rather than a nursery think again - saving yourself a few pounds is quite a selfish decision and potentially dangerous.

[tania111]

oh yes and although I can understand it being distressing about the nappy cream it's hardly in the same league as leaving toddlers unattended isn't it?

Also, naive it may be to think that all nursery staff will like your child the point to my post is SAFETY...like it or not a childminder is alone with your child (maybe with her own or a couple of other children too) but there is noone else to may sure she is not abusing or neglecting them. A nursery though not failsafe, if you choose a good one, is a safer option simply through numbers.

I realise some of you here are probably first time mums with your first child, but please consider all aspects when choosing childcare. Ideally, a child under school age should be at home but for many people that is not an option and some people feel that a childminder is cosier for a baby. But please think about your child's safety first and if you think a nursery such a poor place then maybe you need to think about whether you can actually work.

You need to put your child first and safety is the first consideration. Some of you need to think long and hard about your own choices.

[mrsgboring]

My nursery had an outstanding ofsted and came highly recommended by several extremely experienced parents.

I spent many hours in the place and although most of the staff were lovely and devoted (as are most CMs IME) the environment was completely unsuitable for a sensitive child such as the OP's DS (and mine).

Nappy cream not the end of the world. Being lied to to my face is. Another friend of mine paid a surprise visit to a local nursery (not the one I used) and found a child on the other side of the gate, waiting to depart. Nursery is no better ensurer of safety than a CM.

It is perfectly possible to check up on a CM just as well as you can check up on a nursery.

Actually I don't work now, but that is because my child was so traumatised by the nursery experience that he was in no fit state to be left with a childminder in the time I had left remaining to sort it out before I had to return.

That was the point of my first post - to say to the OP that her DS doesn't sound suited to nursery and if he isn't she won't be able to make it work for her.

And I find it insulting that you suggest that I'm just too stupid and inexperienced to find a good nursery. After all, you must have researched your original decision to use a CM fairly thoroughly also and you were let down badly.

[sailingduo]

have you asked gran if she could do an additional day? Then that would mean no changes? Perhaps then you could ask CM to give you the first possible place for the additional day. I have a 21 month old who is quite needy and clingy, and I would hate the thought of having to move to another childminder or to a nursery when she so loves her CM.
Good Luck--it is a minefield.
As to the above--I am a child protection SW manager and I have real concerns that you did not report the above. Even if she is not childminder she still committed a crime and could well be a risk to other children for whom she cares on an informal basis. The relevant authorities would interview other parents who had used her and take your child's statement extremely seriously. We all have a responsability to keep children safe.