ds1 just had his first fully-blown, out of control tantrum. please come and tell me if i handled it the right way. i can take it.

[Tutter]

he's 2.11yo and has recently started at nursery a couple of mornings a week

as bribery a reward for no tears and good behaviour (it started off as the former, has developed into the latter now he no longer is upset at being left) he has a treat in the car on the way home

as i was waiting at the gate to pick him up i saw him throw stones (bark chippings? not sure which) at another child

when he came to the gate i told him off and said he wouldn't be able to have his treat. his teacher told me he'd been good all day

he cried for about 25 minutes, nearly making himself sick a couple of times

he's ok now (this was 45 mins ago)

he's never thrown stones before, so has never been told not to do it. but am i right in assuming that a nearly-3yo should know that it's wrong?

his reaction confused me, as it was almost as though he felt his 'punishment' unfair

was i overreacting because ds2 choked on some thread and threw up everywhere en route to pick-up (so i was stressed)?

c'mon, i can take it, wwy(have)d?

[Tutter]

btw, we have now chatted, shaken hands, kissed and made up

i asked him if he'd be a good boy on thursday, would he throw stones, and would he get a treat (yes, no, yes)

[BetteNoire]

You did good.

[Iklboo]

Think he wouldn't necessarily know it was wrong and DS (2.5) always thinks being told off etc is unfair
If he'd been good all day I might have just tols DS not to throw things again and still given him a small reward

[VictorianSqualor]

You did great, he may not have understood throwing stones was wrong, I honestly believe that at that age, and even older they kind of know, but in the actual moment forget iyswim.
DS is 3 and a bit and he does thngs I'm sure he knows are wrong but I think when doing them he doesn't consider it, so making sure he was aware it was wrong (what you did) and then not pandering to his crying (again what you did) IMO is the best way to deal with it.

[Iklboo]

Oh - but I don't think you were wrong!

[VictorianSqualor]

And the treat thing, I would probably have said he couldnt have it then, because it would have been too similar to rewarding good behaviour, but maybe given him the chance to have it later if he was good until tea time or something.

[OrmIrian]

"his reaction confused me, as it was almost as though he felt his 'punishment' unfair"

Unfair has got nowt to do with it. He wanted his treat. Simple as that. And he was disappointed. You did the right thing but don't be surprised that he didn't appreciate the justice of what you did at the time. If children always did the sensible thing and saw others' POV child rearing would be a doddle

[VictorianSqualor]

argh rewarding bad behaviour.

[doggiesayswoof]

Agree he wouldn't necessarily know that it was wrong to throw stones without being explicitly (and repeatedly!) told

I think you did right - you have to stick with it once you have said 'no treat' no matter how bad the tantrum gets.

but FWIW I sometimes have problems with taking away a treat as a consequence (dd is 3.8 and still occasionally has tantrums)

She will immediately focus on how unfair and "not nice" of me it is to take away the treat and does not seem to recall or understand what she did to deserve it...and the tantrum escalates... still trying to find a solution to this tbh.

[Tutter]

thanks

VS, i think you're right about him being lost in the moment. it's almost like he could barely help himself ("ooh look, little stones, bet they'd be fun to throw... ooh look, grace is climbing the slide, bet it'd be great to throw them at her...")

btw, congratulations on your new arrival - how utterly lovely

[duchesse]

Frankly I think that removing his treat was excessive, after being a good boy at nursery all day (as promised). It's as though you promised him something for one behaviour, and then moved the goal posts. It may have been better to talk to him this time and quietly remind him about the no throwing things at people rule, and tell him that his treat would go the next time he did it.

[Anna8888]

Agree with duchesse.

I think you provoked the tantrum by changing the goal posts like that.

Please say sorry to your DS.

[Megglevache]

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[Megglevache]

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[Starsky]

I agree with duchesse and Anna8888. I would have only taken the treat away if I had told DS before that throwing stones meant treat taken away. I would not have done that as a off the cuff punishment. However, I would have told him off and asked him to stop behavious. I think that taking treat away was too harsh, and that part of reaction was, as Anna8888 said, due to you moving the goalposts.

[VictorianSqualor]

so throwing stones at a child whilst leaving nursery was nit misbehaving at nursery?
I still say no treat at that time or you may as well say 'oh, you were good so we'll ignore the stone throwing'.
So I would say no treat because of the stone throwing but as he'd been good the rest if the day if he could do X then he could have them afyer tea.
I do think youcaused the tantrum too, of course you did, you told him he couldnt have his treat, but he made you act that way by throwing stones.

[Spidermama]

I think you needed to give him the benefit of the doubt and explain, as if he didn't know, about throwing stones. Without anger or judgement. Just as if you were saying, 'Knives are sharp' or 'these stairs are steep' etc.

I think he felt the punishment unjust.

My dh would probably disagree with me, but I don't like punishments anyway, except in really extreme situations where other methods have failed.

[Tutter]

lol at "Please say sorry to your DS"

i did say i didn't mind being told i was wrong. i do mind being told what to do

no, anna, i won't, unless i decide i should

wrt whether the stone throwing was part and parcel of "being good at nursery", that's difficult - i'd gone to pick him up, but he was still there

[Tutter]

he's just asked for his dummy and fallen asleep on the sofa

so was obv tired (doesn't normally nap any more) - helps to explain escalation of his tantrum

[stealthsquiggle]

'I would have only taken the treat away if I had told DS before that throwing stones meant treat taken away'

..that way madness lies.

DS(5) has now refined pedantry to an art form - for example:

DS takes toy away from DD (18mths), provoking squeals

Me: Don't snatch things away from her, please

DS dangles a different toy in front of DD and then whips it away when she tries to grab it

Me: What did I say

DS: But I didn't take it away from her, she never had it

A general expectation that good behaviour is a general thing and not adherence to a specific set of 'don't do X' rules is crucial. And of course he will sob when told he is not getting his reward. You handled it fine, IMHO, Tutter.

[Anna8888]

Well, it depends whether you want your child to trust you or not.

If I make mistakes when dealing with my daughter, I say sorry and give her a cuddle.

[Tutter]

thanks squiggle