DS seems to get picked on wherever he goes

[elfsmum]

feel really down and want to cry ...

DS1 nearly 8 seems to get picked on wherever he goes.

he was a very happy toddler, made friends easily, and has always had a silly side, like living with a mini Jim Carey - stupid noises, funny faces etc

he started school and had a difficult start due to the above, he has settled down in school and is doing well academically.

He doesn't like football, so doesn't fit in with those boys, he has a small group of friends - 4 in total - he says he's o.k. but as we're walking into school he'll say Hi and they will ignore him

One of these boys spent the best part of a year telling him he hated him, to go away etc etc until he decided that it was never going to be sorted (strange words from a 7 year old imho) so they should be friends

things seem to have been better for him since then

I believe he has gained himself a reputation at school for being the one who messes about, and is treated accordingly, i watched this for myself at a school mass where he was sitting (although he did fidget a bit) the boy next to him was nudging him, talking to him - he responded - the teacher saw this and he was the one that was moved.

When something goes on I ask why didn't you tell the teacher he says they don't listen to him

Today he has been at an activity day preparing for his 1st communion, I picked him up and one of the helpers followed me out to say he had been using bad language, there was something going on in his group and they were getting on his nerves and he used the F word

When I've talked to him about it he said there were 6 of them in a group, 4 from another school and 1 boy from his school - he said the 4 boys were calling him an idiot, and were punching and kicking him, the boy from his school butted him in the back - so he did snap and did swear at them

I asked why he didn't tell the teacher - he said they never listen to him, I asked why the boys were calling him an idiot - he didn't know he said he was being nice to them

I am feeling really hopeless, he isn't as mature as other boys his age, he seems to be the one that does all of the trying, sometimes it works but other times his friends tease him or just ignore him (even the 4 he considers his best friends)

he is supposed to be going to mass tonight, but he doesn't want to go, and I'm not going to force him

he has just spent the best part of an hour crying, he says he never wants to go on one of those days again

i know he is immature for his age (but he is only 7) when I look at the boys in our street who are all into football and seem more street wise

all he wants to do is make up stories, games, play characters, make silly noises and generally just be a kid - he is quite a nice kid and doesn't generally go out of his way to be nasty

he doesn't get asked on playdates, and there have been no birthday party invites this year (don't know if that's just because there haven't been any)

if he goes out to play in our road he's normally in after 15 minutes because someone has been nasty - we've watched and witnessed this so we know it's happened

we've tried telling him to go back out

he cries at the drop of a hat, even coming out of school he asked what are we doing when we get home, I say 15 minutes of play then homework - he immediately starts to cry and shout "I am not doing homework"

I keep trying to stay positive, he will mature, he will find his niche, he will have friends, he will be happy

but right now I don't feel like this is going to happen, and now I am crying I just feel so for my boy and I don't know how to help him, I can't be there in school, the playground etc

what do I do ?

[QuintessentiallyAnEmptyCave]

Did not want to read and run. I feel for you. And your son. In many ways your son sounds a little like my son. He does well academically, but he can be a bit silly, and also like to play about and make faces. My son has only one regular child he do playdates with, and no proper friends in school. Though, he does not get picked on, he just doesnt fit in, as he wants to do character play, not football, and not rough and tumble. He is in year 1. I will be watching this thread.

I think with my boy, there is nothing wrong with him, he is just different. I hope when we move that he will find his niche in the new school. Although, with only 14 children in class, I am uncertain.

My son has been to a few birthday parties, but there has been other parties and he has told me he has not been invited to this and that childs party, and I know he is upset about it.

We all so want our children to be happy and adjusted, popular and do well. It is hard if this is not the case.

[elfsmum]

thank you

he has said to me before that he'd like to go to a different school, but I know that's not the answer

I remember reading one thread a couple of years ago from a mnetter who said that there were children who just seemed to be the victims and they still would be if they moved

that has stayed with me, I know I need to be able to teach him how to deal with this, but no matter what I try to say he just answers "but they don't listen to me"

meaning the teachers/dinner ladies which makes me think that the label has stuck from year 1 - God he's only in year 3 and I'm hoping when he gets to senior school he'll fit in better

[duchesse]

Oh goodness, poor you. You sound really worried about him. That is a lot of issues rolled up into one. I'm going to try to unpick a few. My son fell into a fair few of the things you describe, particularly around this age and up to about 10.

Firstly, you say he is young for his age. In my experience, this never stands children in good stead with their peers, sadly. He WILL grow into an adult though, hopefully as little damaged as possible. People can say what they like about state school, but in my experience their is a vicious little undertow of conformism that can cause a lot of problems for children who do not fit the box. If you have the means, you may find a more welcoming environment in a smaller (possibly private) school with smaller classes and more active adult presence. Unfortunately my experience of primary schools in this country is that the adults can pick on the weaker children almost as much as the children, which is unacceptable when they are meant to be guiding children away from such behaviour.

I think I would be inclined to make an appointment with the head teacher (unless he/ she is an absolute idiot) and explaining your case calmly and an un-angrily as possible (although tears are never a bad thing if they come). Put your case calmly, explain his point of view, and ask if he can be very carefully (but covertly) observed for a few days by someone, to find out if his perception of what is happening is actually what is happening. Unfortunately, picked on children tend to become hypersensitive (unsurprisingly) to things going on around them, and may interpret even innocuous or normal childish behaviour as an attack on them. It would be useful to know whether he is over-reacting to normal 7 yr old behaviour.

More later..

[elfsmum]

he is in a catholic school, and god forgive me I wish I'd never sent him there - the need to conform is massive

we were called in by his teacher in reception because when going back to their desks the other children walked and he pirouetted (sp) he should walk like the other children - god forbid he should have a personality

this is really impacting on my faith too - I'm sitting listening to the priest going on about tolerance, love etc etc and thinking "yeah mate try teaching the kids in the school that" it all just seems so empty

I really don't want to speak to the head, anything you say to the school is taken as a personal attack on them - when i was talking to a friends sister (who is a teacher) she asked what school my DC's went to her reply was "oh the catholic mafia - they have a reputation to turn out a certain type of child" - we live in what is perceived as a nice area - so anything that doesn't conform is stamped out

[QuintessentiallyAnEmptyCave]

My son is also in a Catholic school, and I dont think it helps at all.

[chrissnow]

Poor lad. From the other side of the post . . . I was always the silly one in my class and when I went up a year and suddenly 'grew up' over the summer holidays I did get treated as the same silly chatter box as I had been previously. No amount of me behaving seemed to make a difference. So I just gave up tbh. I was never in the cool gangs and had a few mates. But you know what I'm all growed up now and I'm just fine. I still tend to only have a handful of friends, but that is through my choice now. I'd rather have 4 great friends whom I can rely on than 24 cool friends who meander off a the mere whiff of trouble. I think through my experiences I have actually developed a lot of confidence. I've taken a few knocks and silly comments and people judging me from a young age and now its just water off a ducks back. Quite a few people have commented on this. All of the cool gang kids will stop me when I go back to my home town - I may have developed into geek-chic!!
He sounds like he will turn out to be a creative type to me. Maybe you can nuture this? Theatre groups etc. If he performs anyway he may as well do it with other like minded children and probably make some friends with his own 'temperament'. Don't be tempted to try and force a round peg into a square hole...he'll thank you for it in the long run. Just reassure him of how special he is help him to develop the confidence to shrug off the attitude of the 'sheep'.

[chrissnow]

x-posts. Yep you guessed it mine was catholic too!!!

[peacelily]

Oh poor you and poor ds. I do tend to find that although schools in "better" areas do well academically they sometime panic at the prospect of non-conformism. I've just looked at your profile we too live in a "nice" area in a city in the North West, the schools round here are good especially the catholic ones but they don't cope very well with creative, quirky or slightly off the wall children.

I think there's a cascade effect through the community as the parents probably shy away in horror too at the thought of anything slightly different. With hindsight I wish we'd moved 2 miles up the road to a slightly more alternative area where differences are celebrated and nurtured.

When I liase with these schools as to their strategies for coping with children with ADHD/social communication difficulties they really don't have a clue a lot of the time. I think this is an indicator that it's not just education that's important in school but it plays a huge part in childrens social and emotional development. This isn't shown in league tables or SATS results, and is the reason why some parents chose schools based on other aspects such as their "happiness rating" and atmosphere rather than just exam results. As a family we're a bit "alternative" and I do worry for dd18m when she starts school round here.

[elfsmum]

thanks guys - feeling a little better

had another chat with him, when they were working in groups all was fine, until the broke for lunch - then the picking started

it went on for a little bit and he took himself off to his own friends - he's much calmer now and feeling happy

we do nurture what he is good at, and encourage him, spend lots of time in museums, doing creative things

just smiled as I've looked around his room, star wars poster, flags of the world poster, periodic table and a nature poster - did you know snails are neither female or male and all can lay eggs - his favourite fact

and for a 7 year old he can play a mean game of chess [proud mum emotion]

my little angel is clearly a geek and not a jock, and do you know I don't care a jot as long as he's happy

just hope the friends issue sorts itself out and he stops being a target

when he was being picked on by said friend for a year, only one of his other 3 friends stood up for him. then the boy started to pick on this boy too (trying to get DS to side with him and exclude the other boy)

DS came home and told me - we talked and I asked how it had made him feel when it had been happening to him, and is his friend sad - he said yes - so we talked about what he could do to help his friend and stop the other one from picking on him - he helped his friend and it only went on for a week - I was so proud of him for not following the crowd and standing up for his friend

[chrissnow]

He sounds ace!! He can be my friend . Although I can't play chess!

[elfsmum]

I think he is but I am biased

and don't worry chrissnow he'd teach you

[chrissnow]

I think he'll be just fine. It may be a little tough for a while, but he'll get through it. He has a great mum. I love kids with personalities. Like the one in Jerry McGuire (your ds sounds a bit like him).

[QuintessentiallyAnEmptyCave]

And my son has spent the day drawing instructions for the computer game he is going to write together with his dad later this evenigs!

I had a thread about my son a few months ago, here, as I got so many nice and uplifting comments about how every child is different, and need to be able to flourish with what they are doing, dug it out for you to read.

I found it very uplifting at the time.

[elfsmum]

DS made us write to lego and to PS2 game makers for the games that he want's made - we didn't post the letters but in hindsight maybe we should have

your other thread made me laugh, DS1 loved his ironing board and kitchen set as a toddler - that others found absolutely horrifying that we'd actually bought him one !

our house sounds very similar to yours - DH does most of the cooking, and I'm sure I scared the neighbours when we first moved in when I had a skip and a wheelbarrow tipping stuff into it like a navvy (don't think I've seen another woman round here in the garden) the men were actually staring at me !

I've got two boys with very vivid imaginations DS2 aged 3 or 4 at the time arrived at the facepainting station - what do you want - other boys had left with football flags, tigers etc - his answer "a pterodactyl" - she was stumped poor love

[Heated]

Don't suppose you fancy moving to the midlands as he sounds like half the boys I teach ! They're into Dungeons and Dragons, drawing cartoons, writing books, doing things I can't follow with numbers, chess, archery, scaletrix alongside the other boys who are sport obsessed. It's an environment that allows them to be themselves, which is what you need for your ds.

I think Duchesse post contained some wise words. Are there smaller, more nurturing schools in your catchment or is private a possibility?

[Meandmyjoe]

Oh elfsmum, he sounds delightful. What a character, I love the 'mini Jim Carrey' description. He sounds so lovely, but I'm a huge Jim Carrey fan!!! I understand you being sad for him though. Do you think he is aware of him only having a 'few' freinds or is he happy with this? Sometimes it takes time for children to 'fit in'. I had 2 friends at primary school (not kidding, seriously just 2!). One if which is still my best friend today! It wasn't til I got into the second year at secondary school that I actually found like minded people and had lots of friends. I was always seen as a bit 'different too'! A bit of a female Jim Carrey maybe, always jiffling and fiddgeting, laughing and doing random things! I did well at school though but I still do find meeting new people quite uncomfortable. Maybe due to the ack of friends as a small child, making me self concsious in some way. Can't say it bothers me too much! I'm sure once he gets to secondary school (I know this seems like a long way off, but it's really not- it'll fly!) he'll find a lot more people like him. The problem is that primary schools tend to be fairly small and their aren't that many children. He will be fine. He sounds amazing!

[Meandmyjoe]

Oh and I really wouldn't worry about the sport thing. All my family, includung my brother hated sports but did really well academically. I know it means that the other boys see him as 'different' but I think it's lovely that he's happy being a kid doing ompressions and generally playing around. I think it's odd when 7 year olds are streetwise. They don't have to grow up so quick! Of course he needs to know not to talk to strangers and not to get into strange cars and how to behave in certain curcumstances but from what you say he sounds fine. Better than a future football hooligan or a little thug! You never know- he may grow up to be the next Jim Carrey and me and ds will be his biggest fans!

[avenanap]

My little ds has these problems. Another mnetter has recommended a book called the unwritten rules of friendship, it talks about what sorts of behaviour annoys other people, how to make friends, and lots of other things to help a child who is a bit different blend in. It's very good. My ds is a bit of a clown, the book has activities and role play for him so that he can see what his behaviour is like to other people. Your son sounds lovely, he's fun but this is what makes him stand out. It would be a shame to change this but he needs to learn how to fit in with others if he wants to make friends. Try the book, it's very good.

[elfsmum]

avenanap what's the book called ?

[avenanap]

The Unwritten Rules of Friendship. It's written by Natalie Madorsky Elman and Eileen Kennedy-Moore, both have PhD's. It's very good, I used it on my ds and by the end of one week he was given a certificate at school for the improvement that he had made. He can still be a bit of a clown though but the book has helped him to identify when people are getting annoyed with him and it gives stretegies to help a child. It goes into how to help a bossy child, a nervous child, one that's a different drummer (this would help, it's all about children that don't fit in because they annoy other children), the shy child, the vulnerable child, the bully, the sensitive child and a child with a short fuse. It's about £7.99 from amazon. There is a way to help your child, some people have problems with reading, some with maths, some have problems making friends. There's nothing wrong with this. The school should be supporting you aswell though. You need to find out what is going on at school, children can be unreliable when they are asked for information so I would double check what you have been told with the teacher. I would suggest they get a copy of the book so that you can work together to help your son. It will work out for you. I am sure of this. Send me a email through the CAT system if you need any more help.

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Hi Elf,
you have just described my now 9yr old ds1 to a tee. To the point that after last monday i am in 2 minds as to whether to send him back to school. I collected him 20 minutes early as i had a dentist appt when i got to school he came down the stairs with his head to one side having been punched from the top of his head to his shoulder by a child. The reason was apprently he had made a comment the week before and so the child bided his time and attacked him, although my ds's worst enemy came to his defence and said he had not made the comment. The head teacher was insistant that he has. I am at the end of my tether as i have been to the school numerous times asking for them to monitor what was happening. As of yet i am still waiting for them to, he is due to go back to school on Tuesday and i am wary of sending him.

[potoftea]

Just to say that a friend's child sounded very like this, and seemed to make people annoyed with him just by being him.
It did get better as he got older, and he went to a secondary school that had a wide variety of "types" of people, and the teachers were used to that.
He is now in college and seems to have a very active social life, loads of friends both male and female, and is lovely a friendly to all.

Have you tried getting your son into some out of school activites like a chess club, where he could make a fresh start?

[avenanap]

Hi Evenstar. My ds is being treated unfairly by his teachers aswell, he and other children have told me that they always tell him off for little things when others are not, I asked him if he had got into trouble on Monday, he said he had. It appears that he thought that being asked not to run was getting into trouble . I know he's got into trouble for talking at lunch time before . I have found him a new school for september but I really don't want him to go back after easter. The book I have recommended really helps though. It's really sad, they don't want children to be childrn any more.

[TheLadyEvenstar]

In my letter to head teacher last week i think maybe i went a bit ott lol kept it pleasent and polite but blunt and to the point in as much as i asked if it was his skin colour that led him to be singled out all the time and the bullies to be innocent of everything, and the school not wanting to be seen as racist...should add he is one of only 5 whites in entire school. I got a reply in which head said that previous week to the attack ds1 had made a comment causing this latest incident..a week later??? and that he needs to monitor what he says he is 9 ffs, not that the other child should monitor his violent attacks. sorry am still in a bad mood over it.

[avenanap]

I don't think my ds's head likes single mothers, he's a strict catholic and thinks ds will be better off in a strict religious boarding school . Biggest load of twaddle I have ever heard. Apparantly ds is not caring (although helps children when they have fallen over, opens doors for people, picks up other childrens pencils...) Don't kids tend to forget things that have happened? one day friends, the next enemies, then friends again? A week is a very long time for a child to hold a grudge, what did they do about the bully?