Just don't know how to handle dd1.

[Sexonlegs]

Dd1 who is 5 in May, has always been a bit of a handful. Some would call her spirited!

However, the last few weeks have seen her turn in to an obnoxious, selfish, rude and dis-respectful nasty piece of work.

She calls us names, mostly "stupid", "poo head" etc. but talks about hating us etc.

We have tried star charts and the like, but this just isn't working.

I am at a loss as how to handle her.

This evening, she threw a plastic chair at her friend (our 10 year old neighbour who comes over most afternoons after school) and really hurt/upset her. I was so embarrassed.

So ladies, what do I do???

[dizzydixies]

where is she learning all this then?

my dd1 is 5 in july and came up with a few choice phrases - spoke to some of the other mothers and it seems to stem from one boy at the nursery who frankly is a complete horror - have asked nursery to not let him anywhere near her and her behaviour has improved immediately

fingers crossed its just mimicking someone older because she thinks its 'right'

[FAWKEOFF]

my DD is 5 years old and thinks she is 15, i just threaten to tell all of her teachers how horrible she is at home....that sorts her out most of the time, i am now resulting to servere punishment....no nintendo wii

[NorthernLurker]

I think she's pressing your buttons - the 'I hate you one' is a particularly strong one for them 'cos it just kills us doesn't it. So - with the things she is saying to you I would absolutely ignore them - blank face, keep your voice level and move on to a new topic (very hard I know) - if she gets no reaction then it makes it more of an effort for her to keep going with it. The throwing things is hard - that sort of thing can't be ignored but it's hard to know what sanction would work without knowing the child - helpful aren't I!

[notnowbernard]

Dizzy - am interested to know how you approached nursery with that request? And how they granted it?

[Sexonlegs]

Dizzy, I a pretty sure it is from school. The 2 girls she has befriended are also "spirited" and I think they just egg each other on. This was mentioned at parents evening. They are just trying to talk to them about doing the right thing.

I keep talking too about the right thing etc, but she just does not listen.

[dizzydixies]

notnowbernard I am friendly with two other mothers who have their kids in same nursery and when we realised we were all having similar problems with our dc it became apparent that one child at the nursery was behind it. My dd is very well behaved as is one of the other boys, the last boy is a bit wild but not malicious in any way. The boy in question at the nursery is notorious for bad behaviour/lashing out and saying terrible things - goodness knows where he is getting them from, its a shame for a 4/5 yr old to know to say such phrases - threatening the other kids with violence/shouting and swearing at the staff/telling one of the boys he could be invited to his party and was allowed to come but only so he could kick him and make his brother hurt him too?!! I feel sorry for him but I don't want him to be influencing my dd with it.

I had a quiet word with very nice member of staff stating that I had asked dd where she had heard some of the phrases she was coming up with and she kept replying it was from this wee boy. I then said that she's not normally in his company and could they make sure that she wasn't spending any more time with him than necessary as I didn't think he was a good influence. She isn't in his group and I'm not sure if this lad is jealous because their wee group are very friendly and get on so well? is that an issue at such a young age, I don't know.

the nursery are well aware of this boy and have implimented several discipline measures as a specific result of his behaviour. there is now a daily reward system to encourage his good behaviour/ if he is really bad he is removed from the pre-school room and put in with the 2-3 kids to sit in the corner on a chair as putting him the in quiet corner in pre-school wasn't working at all

its a shame that he has these issues and he is obviously getting them from somewhere outwith the nursery but I certainly don't feel the need for him to be upsetting the younger ones. I can only speak for my dd but for the short time she was behaving like this it was very unlike her and now its all changed again thank goodness

[notnowbernard]

Feel very sad for that boy.

Am suprised at a nursery agreeing to keep him segregated from specific children though... at request from parents?

I mean, for eg if your dd approached a group of kids he was playing with, how would they manage that situation?

I wonder if his parents are aware of his problems. A difficult situation

[macwoozy]

Why be so quick to blame this 5 year old boy for your dd's behaviour, poor kid. It's going to really help with his social skills now he's segregated...great one.

[mummyoffrankie]

i went through exactly the same thing with my dd at around the same age.everything you mentioned- she was already vivacious and demanding - the insults and the 'i hate yous'. it was the most trying stage of her development so far.
i withheld favourite toys- ' no playmobiles (her most played with toys)for 2 days', and it passed after about 6 months.
dont know if this was due to punishment or gaining maturity.
she is now 7yo and gorgeous and almost never says it now.
you cant keep your child away from bad influences imo,they have to learn right from wrong on their own.my dd just ignores badly behaved kids now.she is still 'spirited', but i wouldnt change that.

[controlfreakyagain]

how would you feel if it was the other way round dizzy? hope your dd doesn't go through a bad patch at nursery and get put in solitary!

[dippydeedoo]

i feel sorry for the little boy too.......back to the original post tho i think at 5 they are testing boundaries and its difficult for us as mothers to see how our 'babies' change id continue to encourage and reward good behaviour but be vey firm and stern on naughty behaviour -could she be vv tired? lame excuse i know but maybe she is?

[dizzydixies]

OMG I never asked for him to be segregated from the group, just to watch as some of the things he was saying to the younger kids were unacceptable, they've agreed and have several complaints re his behaviour

the NURSERY have instigated all the disciplinary actions re this boy - NOT ME and NOT AT MY REQUEST and I presume with the knowledge and agreement of his parents, had you read my post notnowbernard you would have seen that the nursery are already aware of this wee boy and are taking measures re his behaviour - I have only asked that my dd doesn't spend more time with him than necessary - I wouldn't let her watch programmes condoning or encouraging that kind of language or violence so why should I just because it comes from the mouth of an older child in what should be a secure environment?

My 4yr old is a happy bubbly girl who will befriend everyone and anyone but when it comes to a little boy making threats re violence and killing people of course am going to bloody well step in - why not, so as his feelings don't get hurt?! Sorry not my problem, the nursery have to step up and sort it out with his parents. am entitled to look after my child and to expect the people I pay to do so when I can't are doing the same.

If and when MY dd does go through, as you call it controlfreakyagain a BAD PATCH I shall expect them to deal with it the way they see fit with my blessing and support. I have no doubt that by the time my dd2 gets into the preschool room we will have some issues there but I will deal with that if and when I need to. I think you'll also see that I think this wee boy is sadly being affected by someone older within his life and acting out from what he has learnt from them but I cannot control/change that either

sexonlegs apologies for apparently sparking outrage at my parenting views on your very valid thread - I was only trying to point out that my similarly aged dd was influenced by those about her and maybe yours was being to. I hope it sorts itself out soon, maybe someone with less radical and judgemental parenting skills than me will come up with something more appropriate

[controlfreakyagain]

ok ok. calm down before you explode.

[dizzydixies]

sorry but am the world's worst at trying to sort everything out amicably and the thought of me trying to 'sort' out a 5yr old is quite ridiclious, my dd2 would be better qualified. I know I can't protect them from everything but for as long as I can try I will.

[macwoozy]

I understand why you're getting upset, you want to protect your dd from all these terrible bad influences. But your dd during her school years, will come across children who might not be the type you want your dd to be associated with. But that's life I'm afraid. Just be thankful that you have a lovely dd whom you are normally proud of.

[dizzydixies]

I am thank you macwoozy, am fully aware she is going to have to hold her own very soon, I'm sure she'll manage just fine, I just feel that when I have some say in it I will do. Apron strings to be cut in Aug this year when dd1 starts school

[michtenstein]

I just had to say that I had been thinking of writing this same thread on here and my my dd1 is also 5 in may! must be an age thing. She is home schooled so i cant blame it on that. I am just hoping that this phase passes soon.

[notnowbernard]

Dizzy -

"I spoke to nursery and asked them not to let him anywhere near her" (from your post earlier in the thread)

That is what i meant by segregation.

Of course I can understand your worry about this little boy.

But agree with the poster who implies you maybe in for a bit of a shock when your dd starts school, and you have NO CONTROL over who she spends time with or is influenced by.

Not meaning to 'have a go', it does seem like a difficult situation.

But it does come accros like this boy is already labelled the Problem Child To Be Avoided, IYSWIM

[lollipopmother]

You've got to look after your own children foremost though, and then others afterwards if you're that way inclined. I don't think you should allow your child to be negatively effected just so that you don't label another child a 'problem child'. It's nice to think that people care for children other than their own, but you can't let the development and behaviour of your own child dwindle just because you don't want the other child to be labelled. At the end of the day his behaviour labels him, not other parents who then have to point it out.

[notnowbernard]

Of course you look after your own first.

I just think discussing it with other parents, then asking nursery staff to segregate a specific child isn't the way forward in this situation.

[lollipopmother]

Not the way forward for your own child, or for the other child?

[dizzydixies]

god I was dreading coming back on here this morning

Notnow I maybe didn't word it very well in the first post and I understand why you all jumped on it but she is only 4. They are in different groups at nursery so don't have too much to do with each other but I don't want him ramming into her in their outside space or causing disruption when she's trying to eat at the dining room. I think its a reasonable thing to be brought to their attention, although I presume they are very much already aware as told me there had been several complaints and they were taking measures to deal with it.

The removal of this boy to the 2-3 room is done as a last measure when he is refusing to behave/calm down/ stop shouting or swearing or lashing out at the teachers. He is not segregated from the rest of the group unless HIS behaviour merits it and I presume they would do the same for any other child if they behaved in that manner too - even if it was mine.

her behaviour was being affected by something outwith the house, in a very negative manner. I chose to seek out the problem and all signs pointed to this wee boy. It IS a shame but I am not going to be in shock when she starts school and I have no control over who she spends time with. We have raised a confident, responsible, well mannered girl so have every faith in her making the right decisions as she becomes mature enough to do so.

The nursery are already aware of his behaviour and I can only hope that his parents are informed and the measures in place are helping him. I just wanted reassurance they were aware of these problems and were tackling it, when he's making at least 3 other kids miserable and affecting their behaviour then there are issues with his behaviour - not just a specific clash between him and my dd

I pay for these people to look after my child when I cannot. I expect her to receive excellent care - not preferential, just what the rest get and when one teacher is constantly away from the rest because of this one child then they need to deal with it.

What he says is inappropriate and I wouldn't let her watch this on the tv or be around an adult with the same language/behaviour whether in nursery or around family or friends.

Sorry just my opinion as HER mother, not the little boys carer who are hopefully trying to remove the influence teaching him these horrible things.

I don't mean to spark a debate about 'problem' children or imply that my dd should be pretected over and above the rest

[notnowbernard]

Either.

Re other child, it sounds like they have 'strategies' in place to try to manage his behaviour (whatever that behaviour may be, we don't actually know). Best to leave for nursery to manage the situation, IMO

Re my child (I have a 4y old dd too) if she comes home from ANYWHERE with language/behaviour I don't think is acceptable or appropriate I'll deal with it there and then. Although she may have been influenced by another child, or indeed copied another child, she still needs to be taught that it's not right, for her.

I wouldn't attribute the behaviour of my dc to another child, in the first instance.

[dizzydixies]

am not discussing it with random other parents, these are friends of mine who I happene to meet up with every week and who send their kids to the same nursery

we were talking about the behaviour of OUR OWN children as I was trying to work out what on earth was going on with dd. We realised that this boy's name was a common occurrence regarding fighting/violence/swearing/disruption and basic bullying

the kids had not discussed it between themselves but each individually with their own parents - we didn't get out the pitch forks, falming torches and demand his removal from the nursery - I have no idea if either or the other mother's have even mentioned it to the nursery

[chrissnow]

many moons ago I saw something similar with a friend and 4/5yr old.
4yrold - I hate you mommy
mommy - (not even looking up) that's nice dear. Would you like spaghetti or pie for dinner?
4yrold - (schreeches)I hate you
mommy - yes dear. Spaghetti then?
4yrold - did you hear me?
mommy - yes you hate me. Do you want garlic bread with your spaghetti.
4yrold - aren't you upset?
mommy - am I supposed to be?
4yrold - (shouts) yyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeesss
mommy - Oh sorry. Why am I upset? Why do you hate me?
4yrold - I don't know
mommy - Ok. I'll make spaghetti while you decide why you hate me. Come back and tell me.
4yrold wanders off looking rather flummoxed
4yrold comes back - (small voice) mommy I don't hate you. Can I have cheese and spaghetti.
mommy - of course you can. I love you.
Most bizarre to watch I have to admit, but was superb. That woman is the mother I want to be (I don't think I ever will be though)