Hysterical 12 year old dd. Actually make that just 'd'.

[Maidamess]

I am having a ahrd time with my dd 12, and finding her behaviour increasingly unlikeable. She will start to play with ds (6). He might accidentally spit a bit when he talks for example, and like a hot brick he is dropped with a 'Urghh! You're disgusting!! Yuck, urgh urgh' which leaves ds bewildered to say the least, as she started the game. She will also lash out if accidentally hurt, before the other person has even had a chnace to apologise.

She is very quick to say she hates us, door slamming, floucing, all over the tiniest thing. She has just told me she hates me and wishes I would die, in another one of our ructions which escalate from nothing!

I have banned access (in a very calm way) to the pc for a week, as I will not be spoken to like that.

I know its all hormones etc, but surely there is a place for a bit of kindness and tact towards her brothers and a bit of respect towards us as her parents?

How do you treat your pre pubescent daughters without resorting to shouting and hysterics too?

[Maidamess]

[madame]

I have no experience with a 12 year old I am afraid but I can offer you sympathy.

I was horrible to my mum when I was 12 and still remember it to this day. She died 3 yrs ago and I still said sorry to her then for it. She isn't mature enough to be able to control her feelings and is just lashing out. You are totally right to put the boundries down as she will have to learn that this is the big world and it doesn't revolve around her.

Hard I know....

Would ignoring stuff that doesn't matter too much work and only taking away priveledges when she is really rude.

[HonoriaGlossop]

i think treat her with lots of kindness and understanding, hard though that is when she's being so unlikeable. But I really think she can't help it, of course it's down to hormones and as madame says just lack of practice at controlling these stronger feelings.

I remember being horrible to my brother at about this age and thought it was gross if he even touched me

It's as confusing and annoying for her as it is for you I think.

I agree boundaries are needed - I would just go really careful in banning stuff or taking stuff away, because the anger and resentment this will create will probably make matters worse IMO. Even at 12 I still think kids need a clean slate every day. I think madame is right that ignoring might be really useful. And it might stop things escalating as you describe.

[MeMySonAndI]

I'm years away from DS hitting that age but I remember my parents just kept the same rules without making much allowance for hormonal behaviour.

Obvioulsy there were things you couldn't contro being 12 and immature, but lashing out at another person or saying "I hate you" was well beyond the limits, which may only meant that we kept our "hates" to ourselves but at least the house didn't exploded with 3 teenage girls and a woman going through menopause all at the same time)

[Maidamess]

What I struggle with is that I wouldn't let anyone else speak to me like she does sometimes, but how many allowances am I supposed to make for her stage of life?

Jeepers, I thought having a toddler was difficult.

[madame]

Your boundries have to be yours and nobody else's. What I may be happy to accept you may not and visa versa.

Sit down and really think about what you are prepared to let go and what is unacceptable. Get a good friend or DP to look at it and see what their thought are. Even show the list to your dd, she may scoff but she is then in the know and you all know where you stand.It may make your daughter reflect a little also.

[mrsruffallo]

I think you have done the right thing in sticking to your decisions. I don't think that ignoring is the answer at this age, they are old enough to reason with and speak to you politely.
I think fairness, firmness, along with plenty of affection and humour and maybe a bit more responsibility for her.
This is also a great age to do constructive things together-something that makes you both feel that you are a team and on the same side.
If there is an underlying problem feeling close to you will help her open up.

[SilentTerror]

Maidamess,I would have toddlers anyday over teenagers!
Sounds like the hormones are raging and teenage tantrums kicking in.Have experienced all this with DD1,now 18,and it has been a tough 6 years.We have 3 more DCs and I have learnt to try to ignore things which don't really matter and save my energy for the larger things.And boy,how I have needed that energy!

[Sycamoretree]

Maidamess - I just wanted to post as I had a very hard time at this age myself. My hormones were raging, but in hindsight, both my mum and I realise they were raging more than the average teenage girl, and I probably should have gone to see my GP. I loved my family all dearly, but one time I actually pulled a kitchen knife on my sister (not trying to frighten you - i KNEW I would NEVER hurt her) but I wanted everyone to think I could be that reckless - it was a call for help. Abnormal hormone levels just make vile nastiness come out of your mouth all the time - you can't help it, you don't mean it, but you have to get it out.

Something as simple as a mini-pill would probably have made me have a much happier adolescence, and made my poor mother's life a heck of a lot easier. I'm not saying this is your situation, but it's worth considering.

Also, peer pressure obviously huge at this age, and girls often copy the kind of obnoxious behaviour they see other "popular' girls demonstrating, so there maybe some of this going on as well. Try and stay calm - hard I know - if she feels that you are starting to dislike her, or move away from her, likelihood is you'll see her behaviour slide even more as she tries to get your attention in negative ways.

[Maidamess]

Thankyou for your words of wisdom.

It doesn't help that we are both very stubborn characters! I know I have to be frim with my boundaries, but also ignore the trivial stuff. I like the idea of drawing up a 'charter' of what as family we are prepared to accept and what we are not.

What wise mumsnetters you are xx

[littleshebear]

My dd1 is just the same, she is 12. I do try to make allowances in that I will try to ensure she has as much time alone as possible, and am quite strict about her big brother teasing her. I try to take her feelings seriously - but I won't be spoken to like dirt. Just read that awful Guardian Saturday Family "Living with teenagers" - what a warning.

Having said that, I think the odd bit(or even quite a bit!) of door slamming/overrreaction/unreasonabless is to be expected - but you have to be careful not to allow adolescence to become the excuse for totally unacceptable behaviour, IMO.

[Janni]

Maidamess - I think we are too quick to blame all bad behaviour on hormones. Yes hormones make us feel emotional, but we do not lose control of our minds! We do not lose the power to speak in a reasonable way to those who love and care for us. Keep your boundaries firm, let your daughter know you love her but are unwilling to be treated badly and that you are there to protect your DS as well as her - that means not allowing her to act in a bullying way towards him, just as you would not look on and see anyone bully her.

[Maidamess]

I know littleshebear..I'm not sure I know 100% in my own mind what behaviour I am willing to accept from her.

With my boys 6 and 4 its a walk in the park, because I've been there, done that. But teenagerdom is unfamiliar territory.

[hunkermunker]

Maidamess, how's her diet? Would she take evening primrose oil or similar?

[Maidamess]

Hunker I had never considered her diet...its not great. Fruit comes home uneaten in her lunch box most days.

I have the most monumental bottle of Evening Primrose for my raging PMT's (yes, its a bundle of laughs round here some weeks, with me and her going at it hammer and tongs).

I could easily give her one or two capsules of that.

[hunkermunker]

Diet can be a massive part of it. I reckon I'd have had a nicer time of adolescence if I'd eaten better (or at all, at some points...).

Does she eat well at home? Do you have a family dinner? Is there something healthy that she really enjoys? Can you make an effort to help her get more fruit and veg into her? Smoothies, etc?

[Miggsie]

I was a very angry teenager and awful to my parents, they were very old school and strict so I sought solace in solitary activites to avoid telling them I hated them and getting punished...as you are doing tolerance (I envy your daughtr there) you are already halfway there, perhaps you/she could find an activty she can use to be by herslef, calm herself down (useful technique for the rest of her life) and then she can re enter the family arena when she feels good about herself and them!
I remember HATING the sound my mother made when she ate and mealtimes were real efforts of will to get through without screaming...could not wait to get to my room and do my own stuff and avoid the lot of them...I still do calligraphy which is one of the things I took up to avoid my family.
And it may be best to avoid a lot of computer use, I find it makes my DD tired, ratty (or more tired and more ratty) and brings out compulsive behaviours and almost addictive type reactions...not good if you are already in an anger "spiral" or whatever the latest pharse is!

[igglepiggles]

i was a horrible teen!! i used to scream shout and huge tantrums lol my mum would be the one who would get it! im 19 now so i suppose im still a teen but by the time i was 15/16 my mum was like a best friend and we re still as close now, all i can say is its a phase but she has no right to treat you like this and same as wat i was like there was no excuse for it.

i reallyhope it sorts its self out for you

[Sycamoretree]

I have to disagree with Janni - I do think hormones can make you lose control of your mind, ask anyone who suffers from particularly bad PMT. I have certainly lost the power to speak reasonably to those I love, but as an adult it can be easier to make apologies after the event and to understand why you have behaved badly. Not so easy for a 12 year old girl....

But a charter sounds like a great idea, and to try and establish some basic boundaries of respect. My DH and I try and do the same thing if we ever argue - we know there are some areas that are just NOT COOL to go to, and we do our best to adhere to these rules even if we are in an absolute rage at each other .

Good luck Maidamess

[Janni]

I agree with Janni
NEVER let them get hold of the 'it's my hormones' defence.

[Sycamoretree]

Janni agrees with Janni - what a surprise

[VintageHeart17]

Hmm, I think she sounds LOVELY.
Love from your dd.
Or is she just a d?