Can I expect 4.6 year old ds to......

[emat]

get himself dressed and undressed,
get his coat and (velcro) shoes on,
be responsible for all his toilet needs, flushing, washing hands etc,
get in and out of the car and do and undo his own seat belt

by himself?

I know he can do all these things without help but he seems to be constantly asking for me to help him or remind him. Should I still be helping him or should he be expected to do them? The tears and whinging are getting on my nerves.

[JoPG]

The only thing out of those that I would do for DS is his seatbelt. i like to know that it is done properly.
Other than that I would expect him to do the other stuff himself.

[LilyLoo]

My sil says her ds 12 would still let her do most things if she let him. Come to think of it so would my dp

[Gess]

ds2 (5.3) still has a lot of help dressing. Fine undressing (expcept when neck is small- he has a huge head), fine with toiletting providing he can reach the tap. That's quite recent though.

[Hulababy]

DD is almost 5 and still really struggles to fasten her own seatbelt. I think part of that may be my own fault though as never really tried to get her to do it - like to have that responsibility myself. Most of her friends don't fasten their own belts either.

DD can dress herself on the whole but still needs some help with top buttons, back fasteners, tights can be a pain for her and some tighter socks.

Toilet things seems hot and miss with DD and her friends. I have been upstairs after they've been playing and do tend to find I have to flush occasionally after one or other of them.

[GreenandBlackOtter]

probably !! mine is 4 and two months ...no way he can do his belt but others yes probably

[princesscc]

Is he at full time school yet? If not, he had better get used to doing it for himself, beause they won't have time to do it for him at school! I agree with the car seat thing, but you are going to be reminding him to do these things for YEARS! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, I have 11 year old dd and she still needs telling at times!

[PrettyCandles]

At this age I would expect my LOs not to touch the seatbelt, but to ask (and wait for) permission to do it up or undo it. I prefer them to know that seat belts are hands-off, as I don't expect them to know whether we've arrived and are about to leave the car, or whether we've just stopped for a moment and are about to drive off.

All the other tasks you mention are things that they should be getting competent at ,but can still hve help with if they need or want it.

I think that, if you have to nag or there are tears and whinging, then it's not a matter of competence but of competition. Sometims it's better not to say anything but to just get on with it and do the task for them. Less time wasted and less aggro. Eventually they start doing whatever it was for themselves again, secure in the knowledge that mummy loves them more than she loves the task or being bossy. (Not that I'm accusing anyone of bossiness.)

[brimfull]

my ds is the same age
he does all those by himself,often with a lot of nagging/encouragment.
I hadn't thought about doing up his seatbelt,I'll have tohave a go at teaching him.He does undo it himself though.

Oh and he can't/won't wipe his bum either.I find a racing game is often needed with the dressing .
Ds can't do buttons either.

sorry rambling and jumbled post

[FrannyandZooey]

I expect he can do them, but I expect it is more pleasant for him to have help with them

Are you very busy with other children or do you have physical problems that make it hard for you to do these things for him?

Personally I would encourage him to ask politely for help when he wants it, and also encourage him to have a go with you helping. If you are really too busy or whatever then say "I am busy with this right now, you get started and I will come and help in a minute"

or get him to bring his shoes and come to you if you are doing something else

I would not expect a 4 y o to necessarily do all or any of these things without being reminded, really

I expect some children can but it seems like yours can't - so don't make a battle of it. He will become more independent in his own time.

[MrsSpoon]

My DS is 4 years 10 months and I would expect him to do all these things (he's not that great at some of them, constantly gets his shoes on the wrong feet, forgets to wipe his bum/flush the loo etc so needs many reminders), the only thing I wouldn't expect him to do is the seatbelt, DS1, age 8, does his own seatbelt but I can't remember what age he started doing that.

[kid]

My DS is 4.11 and can do all of those things and has done for quite some time. He doesn't undo his seatbelt until I turn the engine off, I always insist this to him.

He will always try and get away with not washing his hands or flushing the chain after using the toilet!

[emat]

I suppose the reason that I'm reluctant to help him to say, get dressed, is that I know that he can do it easily by himself. I only buy clothes that are easy for him to put on. My reckoning that he dawdles and whinges and cries is because he's lazy and he wants someone else to do it.

With the toilet stuff I don't mind reminding him to flush etc but a friend still wipes her 4.6 year olds bum and I was wondering if I was being pushy on this. He'll be starting school in September so I think it's important that he can do it himself.

He's usually fine about his seatbelt and I won't move the car till I hear it click but sometimes he'll sit there and say 'nooooo, yooooooooou dooooo it!'

[Hulababy]

But at 4y6m he still only little. Not lazy I bet, more just wanting a bit of help - maybe tired, maybe can't be bothered, whatever - but just sometimes at such a young hekp, then yes ME they want mummy or daddy to help out a bit.

[sunnysideup]

He's very very young to be doing all that. i wouldn't expect it of my ds who is the same age. I expect him to have a go, and/or ask me politely for help, which he does. I then help him. He is a very young child who needs lots of input and encouragement; he probably physically may be able to do this stuff, or some of it, but he obviously isn't ready to. Keep encouraging him to try; that's all you can do. when he is ready he will do more.

there's just no point in trying to force independence.

I certainly would not let a 4 yr old be responsible for seatbelting themselves, on a purely safety level. You NEED to do this to check they are safe.

I think lighten up, help a bit more. He won't still be asking for help when he's ten - just trust him!

[sunnysideup]

I think he says 'you do it' because it's just another bit of loving attention from mum; and why not? It's part of feeling cared for.

Only just read the bit where you say you wait for the click of the seatbelt, sorry.

But I do think you are expecting an awful lot from him at this age. Don't let him starting school make you think he has to be completely practised at everything. When they have to be independent at school they very quickly are, they learn quickly.

[nikkie]

Dd2 could certainly do them all before she was 5 except I don't let her open the car doors and she struggles with her seatbelt in my car

[FrannyandZooey]

I think family life should be about give and take and doing things happily for one another

There are plenty of things I can do for myself but I enjoy dp doing them for me sometimes; it is pleasant and it makes life go more smoothly

I think if you are struggling then getting him to be more independent is a good thing but it sounds as if you are just resentful of doing anything for him which he can do himself - which sounds miserable for you, and for him

[raspberryberet]

There's plenty of time to get him to be independent. The good thing is that you know he can do these things ... but he's only little, and it shouldn't really be such a surprise that he wants his mummy to do things for him sometimes.

My dd is 6 and sometimes she still likes me to do the buttons up on her polo shirt - just because it's a nice excuse to not always have to act as if she's a grown up. And I always help if she asks; she's still only little too and it doesn't hurt to help her out.

[Glassofwine]

I'm sorry, but I think that if he is able to do these things then he should be encouraged to do them. If you help him then he won't bother. I don't go for the he just wants Mummy stuff, just because you don't want to have to put his shoes on doesn't mean that you don't play/cuddle/etc. My ds is 4.3 and can and does do all these things, it may help that he is the youngest of 3, so sees his sisters doing these things and wants to be a big boy.

He still gets lots of attention, warmth and praise, obviously if he wasn't able to do something then I would help him and show him how to do it. Bringing your child up to be independant is a good life skill and doesn't mean that he will be deprived of parental warmth.

[sunnysideup]

Don't be sorry Glassofwine, you're allowed your opinion! I don't think anyone's in disagreement that kids should be ENCOURAGED to be independent, of course that's fine and speaking for myself that's what I do with ds....but the OP spoke of endless whining and tears, which indicates that encouragement can take you no further at this stage....there can't be a point in FORCING a child who's crying, rather than simply encouraging. Each child is different and finds their internal impetus to independence at different times; your ds is lucky to have his older siblings to copy, and those kids who either don't have that or simply don't feel ready to do stuff completely alone, are just different.

I just believe it's about trusting that your child is doing their best, and will do better as soon as they can. It's all about readiness.

[emat]

It seems to be fairly mixed on what's expected of a 4 year old so I'm going to go a little easier on him and not expect him to do things on his own but praise him when he does.
I suppose I was commiting the age old sin of comparing him with dd at the same age. He's far more attached to me than she was. Boy thing maybe?
He's very tactile and would happily sit on my lap for cuddles all day but I think it's time for him so start being more independant of me.

[sunnysideup]

oh emat let him have as many cuddles and sits on your lap as he wants! He's just taking what he needs, that's all; and it will very quickly be over of it's own accord, this stage, and you'll be begging for a cuddle

I agree, difficult to compare with your dd, girls are so far ahead at this age!

My SIL seems to think her ds has real problems as he is not doing the things her dd was at the same age.

[joash]

GS can do al those things - it's just easier and quicker for me to do them sometimes if I need him to get ready, etc in a bitof a rush. I do always do his seatbelt though and probably wil do until he's around...oh lets say... 40 .

[PrettyCandles]

He'll be far more confident about going off and doing things for himself if he knows that he can always come to you for anything - including (or maybe even especially) cuddles.

[emat]

oh I would never refuse him a cuddle! and I will certainly help if he ask for it but it's that he pretends he can't do any of it so as someone will do it for him.
If I do everything for him that he wanted he would be back in nappies and being spoonfed.
This morning he did a wee on the bathroom floor because dd was using the loo and he could't be bothered going to the other bathroom about 15 steps away.
This was after being told to use the other toilet 4 times. Should I have carried him there or told dd to get off the loo to accomodate him?