Baby does not stop crying!

[Fredymummy]

Advice please fellow mummy's!
My LO has just turned 16 weeks and will not stop screaming. He has always been a very fussy baby since a week old but it seems to have escalated and I am now losing the will to live.
To begin with in the early days he suffered with silent reflux and then colic both of which seems to have phased out. But since Christmas the crying has returned and it's worse! I've tried everything he just never seems to be happy. I can't put him down for even 5 mins with a screaming fit. He struggles to sleep during the day and when he is about to drop off he wakes himself up and starts screaming again and the only way to stop it is to stand and rock him.
He is bottle fed and has 6oz every 2 hours even through the night.
I'm thinking of switching to comfort milk or hungry baby milk to see if that makes any difference.
Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated.

[Ladykluck]

My baby had the exact same thing at 10weeks. We knew he had reflux but it was in the early stages of treatment. Took him to the hospital as he'd screamed non stop for four days, would nod off and instantly wake and wanted carrying upright all the time. Turned out he had pain from the acid coming up and causing heart burn. Paed gave us lansoprazole and it solved the issue. Now has a prescription milk, thickener to keep it down and the lansoprazole.

[SpaceDinosaur]

The screaming juuuust as he's starting to drop off is classic reflux. Baby relaxes and the acid starts to come up. Burns, hurts and scares the shit out of them 😖

Does he still sleep at an angle with head up?/Did you ever keep him raised a little? Laying flat is the absolute worst for reflux... if you had acid indigestion at all when pregnant you may have an idea of how it feels and how laying down is awful.

[HollyBollyBooBoo]

Would it be worth taking him to a chiropractor who specialises in infants? Could be that a joint or something it out of place and putting pressure on him causing pain.

[AnnaT45]

Sounds like reflux! Are you using anything for it? Make sure you're keeping baby upright for at least 20 mins post feeds and raising head end of mattress for sleep. But you really need some meds and possible special formula as dairy can really aggravate it.

I feel for you, the screaming is horrendous. Do you have a swing chair? It's the only way mine would settle for a nap for a while.

[3luckystars]

The silent reflux hasn't 'phased out" it has gotten worse!!
You need to get that sorted or the crying won't stop.

[fredymummy]

Thanks for the responses.
In the early days I tried him on anti reflux milk which he refused to drink, tried different teats and bottles but nothing helped and I've tried colief drops and gaviscon these made his stomach really bad and he was wiggling around in pain screaming all night.
He is now a fairly good sleeper at night apart from waking for feeds every 2 hours. He has always been propped up and fed in an upright position.
I've spoken to doctors and mid wives and always get the same response, 'some babies are just fussy' or 'he will grow out of it' which is so frustrating because you know when something isn't right and I know something isn't! He might well be a fussy baby but there is something causing him issues I just know it.
I think after reading your comments that perhaps I need to go to the doctor and be more pushy to get some results and maybe trying some different reflux meds to see if it helps this time. Also thinking of trying cranial massage to see if that helps him.

[IrregularCommentary]

If he's on something like ranitidine where the dosage is weight based, get them to weigh him again and check the dosage you're giving. You may just need to up it to reflect weight gain in the last few weeks.

Good luck. Mine suffers from reflux as well and it's so hard going.

[fredymummy]

I also had a midwife come out and show me how to do baby massage to help him and calm him down but it seems to just stimulate him more. The only thing that does help him is a bath and he will kick around in the bath for a good half an hour.

[plimsolls]

Agree with pp, I really don't think the silent reflux has "phased out". Sounds like it's got worse.

Some doctors can be so dismissive of painful reflux (in my experience) as if the fact it will resolve eventually doesn't mean it's horribly painful for the baby and awful for the parents.

Either be firm with your GP or see a different doctor. Proton pump inhibitors like ranitidine neutralise the stomach acid so reduce the burn. Gaviscon only thickens the stomach contents so lessens the likelihood of it coming up. Also, if gaviscon makes the baby constipated (often does) the straining to poo can cause more reflux.

[plimsolls]

Also, colief is just for stomach pain caused by excessive lactose (I think).

You can try gripe water whilst you are waiting for the doc. It has a sodium compound in that neutralises some of the burning. Won't be as good as proper PPI reflux meds but it might help a bit. It also has herbs that supposedly help with wind although that's unproven (helps my daughter though).

[SpaceDuck]

I wouldn't be so sure that his reflux has gotten better by itself. It does happen sometimes but usually only for a very short period of time and will return again when they have a growth spurt. Just when I think DS is getting better, bam, it flares up again.

Also, could he be teething?? Teething makes reflux worse because of all the dribble, so if he is teething and still has reflux, well then I can only sympathise because it is actual living hell. Am going through this at the moment with my DS. Lots of cuddles, calpol, teething gel, teetha teething granules (actual baby crack), teething toys, and for the reflux, infant gaviscon and/or omeprizole/lanzoprazole/ranitidine.

How long go were his injections? DS was really poorly after his, crying a lot, wouldn't take his bottles, wouldn't sleep, more sick than normal (for a reflux baby) Again, the injections can make reflux flare up.

[fredymummy]

Ok thanks. A doctors appointment to being made today and I'm going to go in and be pushy to get the results we need.

[SpaceDuck]

Also if he was constipated on the Gaviscon then ask the doctor for some Lactulose as this will help him poo. You can get it over the counter at the pharmacy too but if you're going to the doctor anyway then you might as well ask for it.

[fredymummy]

He had his jabs about 3 weeks ago and he was really bad for a week after and yes he is definitely teething too, dribble everywhere. We've got the granules and bonjella and calpol and have been using it. Poor little things have to go through so much no wonder they get grumpy!
Could it be worth trying a comfort milk along side the new meds for reflux? I've made a doctors appointment but can't get me in till next week.

[SpaceDuck]

I know, poor little mites!

If you're going to try with the gaviscon then I wouldn't try comfort milk aswell because it's thicker than normal milk and the gaviscon will just make it even thicker and it will be too much. If you're not going to use the gaviscon then it's worth a try, you have to give it a good couple of weeks to see if he gets on with it though. Also heard comfort milk can also cause constipation too so you may want to look into getting some Lactulose either way. Hope he gets some sort of relief whichever you chose! Don't let the dr fob you off when you finally do see them! Took me about 6 trips back and forth before they would give me anything more than gaviscon and he was a million times better with some opemrizole aswell.

[fredymummy]

I'm not going to use the gaviscon as he was awful on it before but if they can give me something else I'm happy to try that first before trying comfort milk.

[FATEdestiny]

I dislike medicising what is probably normal baby behaviour.

There's a big sleep problem - aim for an hour awake time between naps. No.more than 90 minutes.

If you can't get baby to sleep - you need to learn more ways. No point jumping straight to medication when simply more sleep (and possibly more realistic expectations) will resolve things.

Have you tried a dummy?
Have you tried a bouncy chair?
Have you tried limiting awake time to an hour?

Have you tried relentlessly and non stop constant bouncing in bouncy chair and reinserting/holding in dummy from about 40 minutes after waking until asleep and keeping going all through nap?...

Then repeating all of that again the next hour, and the next and the next all day every day?

There may also be a feeding issue. Sleep deprivation can sometimes do things to our perspective on things. Not your fault, but...

"He is bottle fed and has 6oz every 2 hours even through the night."

50+oz of milk in 24 hours is the stuff of 6 month old 91st centile big eaters.

2 hourly feeding through the daytime is a good thing. Massive quantities like this are some thing to worry about.

What's the deal with feeding here?
Is baby draining bottles?
How many bottles are you making in 24 hours?
So you actually track the times of the bottles you give?
Are you mistaking tired signs for hunger signs?

[plimsolls]

FATE I've seen a lot of your posts on sleep threads and I really respect your knowledge in this area and I usually agree with all your points. I just want to wave a hand and say that babies with silent reflux do need medicine and it's not normal baby behaviour. As OPs baby has silent reflux already then it is worth her investigating the recurrence of this, particularly as a PP has said, it does flare up at certain developmental points such as growth spurts and teething.

I might have read your post wrongly and if so I apologise. I'm just sensitive to the idea that - as a mother of a little girl who really does suffer with acid- we might be medicalising normal behaviour. I've had that levelled at me before as if I want to drug her up to make her more convenient. I really don't and I wish I didn't have to.

I guess OP needs to judge whether her baby still has acid reflux or if he just can't sleep. OP, I find with my daughter that although her reflux is worse at night (as PP said the valves all relax with sleep) she still shows signs of it at other times when she is lying down and not expected to sleep. The presence of that could be helpful in working out if there's reflux or just a sleep issue. Presumably though you know the other symptoms of silent reflux from when he had it before (and the other non-medicine interventions such as sleeping on a tilted surface, keeping upright as much as possible, frequent but very gentle winding etc etc).

[FATEdestiny]

just want to wave a hand and say that babies with silent reflux do need medicine...


That is not at all what I have said.

I have said there is zero need to dive straight into medicising an issue without first discounting the most likely.

The most simple and therefore most likely reason for an under 6 month old to be non stop crying is

• over tired
  
• hungry
  

Reflux is an option. Hell, there are a million other childhood illnesses and ailments which are also an option.

The level of projection on any thread that involves a crying baby and any mention of reflux (or CMPA) is so unhealthy it makes me really annoyed.

Simplest answer is ususlly the right answer

• is your baby getting enough calories over 24 hours? (op's seems to be)
  
• is your baby getting enough sleep over 24 hours (op's doesn't through the daytime)
  

So on from that, I don't start waxing lyrical about medical issues. I offer practical suggestions to see if the OP could try more to get baby sleeping, since getting some babies to go to sleep is a lot harder than some people anticipate - so they assume "sonething is wrong" because getting baby to sleep enough can be hard graft for some children.

Then as soon as the "something is wrong" tone behind, posters get carried away with medicising projecting without first stopping to think.

[fredymummy]

I appreciate your post, but surely if a baby is sick or struggling with something that is causing him discomfort then medical help is most definitely needed. You can't let a baby suffer just because you don't like using meds and if you don't try them to see if they help how will you ever know what the issue really is. If he tries the meds and they help then it clearly is reflux if not then it must be something else causing his struggles.
My baby is now 16 weeks old and has always been this way I have tried everything trust me. I understand it is normal for babies to get like this from time to time due to various reasons, teething , sleep problems etc but his behaviour is not normal and I am confident that I as his mother am able to tell the difference between a baby that might be over tired or teething or having sleep issues for example to a baby that is most definitely in discomfort.
We do use a dummy and I do bounce him to sleep in his bouncy chair when nothing else works, bath time, baby massage, gripe water and a whole lot of other things as well.
Whilst I agree with some sort of day time nap routine is a good idea if he is tired he needs to nap otherwise he screams and nothing will distract him and the same goes for feeding, which while it is exhausting feeding him so much I am not concerned about the amount he is having and neither is my health visitor or doctor. As with sleeping when he wants a feed he wants a feed and there is no distracting him. If a babies hungry you need to feed him!
I personally feel after reading some of the posts on here and seeing the general feeling from other mums that it might well be his reflux that it is most definitely worth giving some different reflux meds a try to see if it helps.

[FATEdestiny]

Whilst I agree with some sort of day time nap routine is a good idea if he is tired he needs to nap otherwise he screams and nothing will distract him and the same goes for feeding,

I think you have the wrong idea of what a routine is. A good routine will anticipate.

A good routine will have baby asleep half an hour before showing any tired signs.

A good routine will have baby being fed ^before outwardly showing hunger signs.

A truly awful and very bad routine would keep s tired baby awake or a hungry baby hungry. No one in their right mind would advocate that - it's a left over idea from the 1950s.

For example, you could try a 2 hourly cycle:

• wake and more time. Make a mental note to start getting baby to sleep 1 hour from now.
  
• full feed
  
• floor time/nappy check. Keep eye on clock and end playtime / start getting to sleep 1 hour from waking
  
• top up feed - see if baby wants what is left in bottle
  
• getting to sleep. Bouncy chair, dummy. It might take 5 minutes to get to sleep. It might take half an hour. Just keep going.
  
• sleep. Leave for as long as baby sleeps. Try to resettle with dummy and bounce when stirring.
  
• wake......
  

And start the whole process again. And again and again. Repeating this same 2 (ish) hourly routine mean a baby gets regular naps and feeds all day.

[FATEdestiny]

fredymummy - is baby draining 12 6oz bottles per day?

How much is he actually having per feed?
And how many bottles per 24h?

[FATEdestiny]

"wake and more time" = wake and note time

[fredymummy]

He tends to drink most of his bottles most of the time, occasionally he won't due to getting himself so worked up. Or some times he will leave an once but majority he drains. He is on 5oz every 2 hours all day and all night I know I wrote 6 by mistake. Sorry.
His day tends to go like this
Wakes up at 8-8.30 has a bottle
then we play for about half an hour and he starts rubbing his eyes yawning crying. This is normally about 45mins to and hour after waking. This is the one time of day he will usually go down for a nap almost straight away. He normally sleeps for about half an hour. Then he wakes up screaming and will not settle. the rest of the day is spent walking around the house with him. Bouncing him in his bouncy chair anything that might stop the screaming. His awake time during the day is spent with him screaming an me trying to stop him! He's normally happy for about 10mins after a feed then the crying starts. Maybe I could try bottle sleep then play?
I'm finding it so stressful as my partner works all hours and I have nobody else to help out. Both our parents are miles away and both my sisters have small babies of their own (both of which are little angels)! It is diving me crazy having a screaming baby all day and evening and having nobody to take him off me even for 10 mins. I have only just managed to dry my hair and I washed it at 9 this morning!

[FATEdestiny]

He tends to drink most of his bottles most of the time

You need to increase his bottle size then. A bottle fed baby should always be offered more than they drink. If ever baby finishes a bottle completely, it means it's time to up the volume.

The aim should be to have 1-2oz left once baby has had enough. So I would recommend you start making up 7oz bottles. If they are getting drained, make 8oz bottle

Maybe I could try bottle sleep then play?

Yes, absolutely! If you have an especially hungry baby you could do Wake-Full Feed-Play-Full Feed-Sleep.... repeat, repeat repeat.

Then he wakes up screaming and will not settle

At that point (just after waking from first 30m nap) I'd give a full feed, check nappy and straight back into bouncy chair with dummy to sleep. Baby is clearly still tired and/or hungry.