Terrible wind problems in 6 week old DS

[GothicRainbow]

We're having terrible wind problems with our 6 week old DS2.

He's FF taking roughly 4oz each feed and going 3-4 hours. Feeds are taking between 45mins to an hour and a half due to the amount of winding we have to do.

He is currently on HIPP Organic formula made with the perfect prep machine, dr brown bottles with a size 2 teat and given Infacol plus gripe water if needed with each feed.

The last few feeds he's been screaming in pain and not wanting to take the bottle after about 2oz we'll then wind for a good 15/20mins to get up lots of burps but the screaming/crying continues. We've been using a dummy to calm him which helps and then offering the bottle again.

Today he's been incredibly fussy not settling well for naps and ended having a full on huge massive cry up from 4pm until 5.30pm not sure if this is the beginning of colic??

My DS1 had reflux and I'm not sure if this is reflux as he's not a sicky baby and some of his feeds are really good, easy drinking, good wind and then he sleeps. But we then get nightmare feeds where he fights the bottle, screams and takes ages to wind with it usually remaining trapped in there.

He's had a tongue tie cut at 3 weeks old and this has healed nicely so don't think it's anything to do with that but he is very gulpy on the bottle and you can hear the milk hitting his tummy and gurgling around.

I'm wondering if he's having problems digesting the milk? My DS1 is lactose intolerant and so am I so now wondering if he could be too - but wouldn't he have more symptoms??

Tempted to try comfort milk but not sure. Just really don't know what to do about it all but hate to see him in such discomfort.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[DearTeddyRobinson]

Would you try the size 1 teats? Should give a slower flow and hopefully more time to digest. I've never tried the comfort formula but it's probably worth a go.
My DS1 was dairy intolerant which manifested itself via eczema, screaming & reflux and was helped greatly with dairy-free formula (Neocate) but sounds like you are familiar with this kind of thing already!
If you are near London & can afford it, I would recommend a visit to one of the paediatric gastroenterologists at the Portman Hospital, I can give you a name of you like. GPs IME tend to say oh well all babies cry/have wind etc but that's not actually true!
Good luck, I have an 8 week old so feeling some of your pain!

[GothicRainbow]

We did have him on the size 1 teats but moved him up to size 2's when he was taking such a long time to take a bottle and falling asleep on them exhausted.

The lactation consultant who cut his tongue tie for us also recommended the size 2's.

I have been debating going back to size 1's for a few feeds to see what that would do but don't want him taking even longer on his bottles again as I also have a 3 year old DS who is spending a huge amount of time in front of the TV!

I am tempted to go and see someone privately, do you know how much a consultation would be? We're only an hour from London so would be worth the journey if it helped him.

[Squegg]

I switched to sma comfort milk made a world of difference.

[Squegg]

Posted too soon, my ds had a tongue tie and we used fast flow teats I found he took in less air with them.

[GothicRainbow]

I am tempted with the idea of comfort milk, it's nuts though as he seems proper chilled right now happy bouncing in his chair - really don't know what's going on with him.

My experience of reflux (DS1) was the constant screaming even long after feeds and never sleeping or wanting to be put down. DS 2 doesn't seem to do this he just fusses like hell during the feed

[comeagainforbigfudge]

Maybe try dentinox colic drops instead of infacol/gripe water. Made a huge difference with my DD. Can be added to milk as well so no trying to get baby to take it

We also changed from dr brown to nuk bottles. HTH,

&

[GothicRainbow]

We do have some dentinox here which I might give a go instead of the Infacol. I do also have some colic granules to try too.

What made you switch to the Nuk bottles?

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I think it's about £120 per visit. Well spent in my opinion as it changed our lives! OTOH if comfort milk solves the problem then even better. But don't wait for months like I did, I was meekly doing what I was told by HV/GP till I cracked.
Also just thought, could you see a baby osteopath? Perhaps the fussing is caused by pain/discomfort elsewhere, a little gentle massage might make him happier?

[GothicRainbow]

£120 isn't out of the realms of spending if we needed to. The tongue tie being cut cost us £140!

I think you're right that we should probably try some cheaper options first though so maybe a switch of milk and then perhaps bottles.

My friend took her very colicky DS to an osteopath I will ask her for the details as that might also be a good option to try, thanks.

[Remiggio]

Could he not just be finished & is upset at being made to carry on? Just asking because I've done this with my own! We switch between boob & bottle & I got so obsessed with a 4oz min each feed, sometimes I'd be sticking the bottle in & he'd royally kick off. Still went 3-4 until next feed & was fine. Breadtfed babies have full meals & snacks depending on how they feel, makes sense bottle babies will too?

[comeagainforbigfudge]

We had a small hospital stay when dd was about 8weeks and the teats provided for the bottles where NUK ones. I was convinced she was less sicky/windy so when we needed bigger bottles i bought those.

Obviously could be a total coincidence

Try the dentinox today. Give it at least 24 hours though before trying anything else. Otherwise you might not know if anything is actually working.

Good luck. The crying/pain is heartbreaking isnt it? Poor wee lambs

[Squegg]

Also if you use comfort milk there's no need to use infacol or colic drops. I'm not on commission but I tried so many different drops and all the different bottles and the comfort milk made pretty much an instant difference. If I had another baby I would use it from the start.

[Crazyqueenofthecatladies]

He has cows milk protein intolerance I think. Both mine have had it and the symptoms are a complete match. It certainly runs in families and if left untreated can cause the sort of digestive damage that leads to lactose intolerance (which is much rarer than cmpi). Untreated there's also links to coeliac, asthma, attachment and behavioural disorders, crohns, even autoimmune diseases like diabetes, all sorts of lifelong problems, so please ignore folk who dismiss this as just reflux or just colic. Sort it properly - which is very easy to do as your formula feeding - and you'll be giving him the best possible gift you can as his mother. If it is cmpi there's no blood test for diagnosis but you have to remove all dairy then wait six weeks and attempt to reintroduce and see if it all goes horribly wrong. The NHS can prescribe hydrolysed milks where the offending proteins have been boiled to break them down to fool the immune system, or in severe cases hypoallergenic formulae which have no milk in whatsoever. And it's quite normal for affected children to initially rally on the hydrolysed formulae then end up needing the hypoallergenic amino acid one after their immune systems get wise to it. I bfed my two so had to cut all dairy (even tea and choc) for two years, but it was utterly worth it for happy, non screamy sleeping children.

[Crazyqueenofthecatladies]

Comfort milk is a commercially available partially hydrolysed formula btw... And colief, gripe water, dentinox, infacol never even touched the sides of dds pain. Industrial doses of omeprazole and removing the foodstuffs she was reacting to were the only things that helped.

[GothicRainbow]

Thanks everyone. So after asking my DM and my DSis to babysit my DS2 today for an hour so I could spend some time with DS1 they have agreed that something isn't right with him. My DM said he is the windiest baby she has ever experienced (they winded him for 40 mins after his feed - still getting burps even after 40mins).

My DSis commented that she didn't think he was latching well on the Dr Brown teats so I went to Boots and grabbed some MAM teats which he's latching on much better with.

Still had screamy feeds this afternoon but his sleep (in the swing) has been good and we've avoided any colicky crying today. Just experienced crying on the feeds.

I also brought Aptamil comfort formula whilst in boots and will be trying this from tomorrow to see if the reduced lactose helps him at all. I was very tempted to get the completely lactose free aptamil but thought I would try the comfort first as if this helps it's more readily available.

I'm going to try and get a feed filmed tomorrow as I'm going to my DM's - will then show this to the GP at my 6 week check on Friday.

[Crazyqueenofthecatladies]

The comfort milk has reduced cows milk protein, not lactose, that is a sugar found in milk. It's really unlikely that lactose is going to be the problem unless serious damage is done further down the line. Lactose free milk is likely to increase the pain as it has more cows milk protein to make up for the reduced sugar. Take a look at cmpi and silent reflux threads on here.

[GothicRainbow]

I thought the comfort milks have reduced lactose as it says on the side of the aptamil comfort box I have that it has 40% less lactose than first milk.

Anyway he's been on it today and does seem more settled in that we've had less crying but he's been a lot hungrier feeding every 2-3 hours instead of 3-4 hours. Im assuming this increase is due to the fact the comfort formula is easier to digest??

He's also not slept well today and has been awake since 7pm (now almost 10pm) which is a long stretch for him - feeling abit nervous about what tonight's going to bring!! I'm off to bed to prepare for potentially being up every couple of hours!