Child good at home but naughty at school

[Dollydoll]

HELP (go easy it's my first time here). My DS is 41/2 (late June birthday) he's just started in September past Y1. I had a parent teacher last month and no problems with settling in had occurred. Yesterday he came home with a book that has 5 time sections stating his behaviour in each section. He seems to spend his day hitting and pushing other children in his class. I need help with how to change this. At home he does what we ask of him, he plays with other children fine, doesn't throw tantrums etc. He's a very bright smart child for his age I'm just lost as to how to help him stop the bad behaviour in school. It now makes me feel sick when I have to go on the school run (his teacher is extremely abrupt in her manner). Please help.

[Ferguson]

Maybe start by asking him to tell you as much as he can about school - what does he like, and NOT like; WHO does he like, and not like?

Explain to him that it is a long time since YOU were a school girl, and you are interested to know how it has changed. What does he do at playtimes? Does he like PE, drama, music, art and craft activities, ICT?

Don't 'quiz' him, but just invite him to tell you about his school day. And don't draw attention to the 'negative' things to start with.

See if that gets you anywhere. I'll try and look back, and see how it is going.

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

Why did he have a book? Do all the children get them?

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

Something about school must be overwhelming for him. The behaviour book will likely add to his stress
School should be working to identify what is causing the behaviour and supporting as appropriate
Can you see a pattern or ask them to watch for triggers

[Dollydoll]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. I have said to my husband that there is something he's not clicking with in school. Ds likes things in order he a smart kid and always has been (I've said he's been here before in another lifetime) he has no problems with after school activities we would take him to so its trying to pin point what is setting him off in school. Not everyone has the book according to the teacher (she has only returned after being off for 4 weeks due to a hand operation) it's only for bad behaviour which I'm not totally a fan of as I believe it is singling out certain children which can led to children being picked on. My husband did the school run this morning and was talking to one of the other fathers who mentioned a boys name in a negative way and my ds has also mentioned this boy on numerous occasions of pushing/hitting and telling him there is things wrong with his food simple things adults wouldn't care about. Omg I'm rambling now lol. I appreciate so much your input

[timelytess]

He has to stop being violent with other children. Explain that to him.

Then ask about school.

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

I'm concerned about the book. Is is just for bad behaviour? Did you agree with it being out in place? Was it explained to you? What is it's purpose?

[Keeptrudging]

Behaviour books can sometimes make things worse. The child labels themselves as the 'naughty kid', the negativity gets worse as now home feel duty - bound to 'do' something about behaviour they haven't seen/experienced.

My personal preference as a teacher is to try to turn it round by using a 'Good News' book, where the teacher shares something every day that the child has done well. Parents can then praise/give lots of attention for positive things. I've used this combined with a very simple 'Smiley Face' chart (3 sections), which went home every day. 3 smiley faces=one (small) reward at home.

I also asked parents to try to keep discussion about behaviour short, with the child talking about what happened rather than me telling. Then a simple 'No treat today, never mind, you can try again tomorrow'. As the child had already been spoken to in school/had a sanction, it had been dealt with, the emphasis was on 'it's a new day tomorrow'. I then called parents at the end of the week to give them an overview of the week.

Sometimes parents don't see the behaviour at home because they've managed to set home up so it really suits their child's personality/doesn't challenge them to do things they don't want to/is very calm and routine. This can lead to issues in school, where things aren't always predictable.

[Dollydoll]

He has been told he is not allowed to push or hit anyone as when someone does it to him he doesn't like it/makes him sad/cry so why would he want to upset and make someone else upset and hurt. Starfright-the book is split into 5 time sections morning, break time, free time, lunch and home when ds has been naughty it's then written into the book if he has been good in the time section he gets a red stamp!! The book was in his book bag and the teacher sternly told me it was for bad behaviour in class. This happened middle of the area that the children are collected and not in a quiet voice loud enough that everyone could hear not appropriate in my eyes.

Keeptrudging I have to agree with you that this stupid book will only destroy his confidence at being labelled bad. We don't call it bad at home we call it naughty behaviour as I don't want in later life when others are referring to criminals etc etc as bad people he thinks that's what he is bad as he's definitely not that. I have requested a sit down meeting with the teacher although I am anticipating that it will not go well as I find her manner extremely abrupt and cold.

[Wolfie2]

OP when. You say he likes things in order, what do you mean? What sort of things? What happens when you do things out of order at home? Does he find it stressful?

Do you think he feels overwhelmed or out of control or tired? Has he explained why he hits others? What's happening in the run up to the hitting? Is it different children or the same child? Where is the hitting happening?

You could always request he has a part time timetable (mornings only) up till Xmas.

While not all boys hit, it is often still in the normal range of behaviour. All the hitty boys I knew calmed down by year 1/2.

[Wolfie2]

It's fine to call the behaviour naughty or bad - as long as you are talking about the behaviour and not telling him he is naughty/bad

[Dollydoll]

Let me try and explain in order hhmmm. When he brings his toys out to play they have to go back in the box in the order they where originally set (trying not to make him sound as tho he has ocd) it's really simple things he likes if he's having beans they go in a small dish and eats them with a spoon I suppose it's really he doesnt like change he likes things the way he has been used to. This is only behaviour at home. If he has made a mess he tidies it up I guess he is a slight perfectionist maybe the chaos of 20 odd kids is too much for him?

I think it's a feeling of being overwhelmed by the chaos and so much going on in class hitting out is the only way to get it out of his system?? As you say he's still in the age range for the hitting (please let it be over soon lol) but has never done it with friends or in social situations.

He seems to mention the same child's name who seems to have a negative influence over him dh mentioned to the teacher yesterday about the boys name being brought up regularly and the teacher said that this boy doesn't have a book!! Other parents have also mentioned this boy's name in a negative way as well. He is the youngest in the class so I'm hoping maturity will bring an end to it. I can't think you all enough for your positive input I really do appreciate it and your comments are helping

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

Lose the book. Seriously. Don't return it. The system only 'works' if you play along.

[Keeptrudging]

I suppose what I would ask re 'liking things in order', is how does he behave/what happens if they're not put away in order (if you 'helped' put them away), or if he doesn't get to eat his beans with a little spoon etc. If he gets distressed by it, that would be a worry. If you always accommodate his preferences because you 'know what he likes' (and I don't mean this as a criticism, it can happen very subtly over time), he will feel very secure at home that everything is ideal for him. I would maybe try small changes e.g. he eats his beans with a fork, to see if he copes with the change/how he reacts. That might give you more idea of how he is at school, where he can't control his environment.

[timelytess]

What you're describing fits in with HFA/Asperger's. I know its the MN answer to every problem, but as an Aspie myself I can well understand how having to be in a chaotic environment would overwhelm him.
I like a 'good news' book. Do one at home and send it in every day for the teacher to initial. She needs to learn that you have a wonderful child, worthy of her more positive attention.

[Dollydoll]

The putting away of things doesn't distress him he just says no it was like that. He lets me help him and it's not a problem. There is never screaming or shouting of its done wrong he just says that he or me are being silly and laughs.

As for the Asperger's I have 2 friends who's children do have Asperger's and he doesn't fit the 'norm' he is very social with adults and children in a social setting and it's not something that has ever entered my mind to have him assessed for (maybe something to speak to health visitor about).

He was at pre school last year and there was only 15 children in the class and never hit out now there is double the amount in his year 1 class.

He has came home today with 4 stamps in his hideous book, there is 5 spaces, that is an improvement on yesterday. He's also been given the role of shepard in his Christmas concert (help anyone want to make the costume lol) for a child that is deemed to misbehave so much would you not shove them down the back where no one can see them? It's getting more confusing by the day.

I like the idea of the book disappearing maybe the cat could eat it.

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

My problem with the book is mainly about the stamps for 'being good' or writing negatives.

First, what does 'being good' mean? You can't expect many children but especially little ones to understand that in its full context. And it is the subjective opinion of a teacher and his/her mood taking little account of the environmental influence or his internal state.

If he were to get a red stamp for each section of the day where he did/didn't do something specific i.e didn't hit anyone, or followed an instruction on 'first ask', and it was ONE particular thing he was working on and the choices were to get the stamp or simply not get it but try again tomorrow then it would have value.

I have no issue with this becoming a communication book too but for information to you about the success of such interventions and/or an opportunity to feed back the effect they are having at home. But this information is not shared with the child or ever becomes their burden to bare.

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

What you 'could' do with reported incidents of 'bad behaviour' is respond to each one via email thanking them for telling you and asking them what they are doing about it so you may support them.

You'll have a written log and they might improve their provision and/or stop moaning to you.

[Dollydoll]

StarfrightMcFangsie I do feel it's a moan book I haven't been at school with him to witness what has been the trigger to set it off and the teacher isn't forthcoming with that information. I had a note in his bag this morning to ask for a meeting with her but didn't get reply. He's still immature for his age as she said herself in the parent teacher meeting and he doesn't really understand the consequences for the behaviour.

[autumnboys]

Has he ever had his eyes tested? Our youngest had a lot of the issues described and it turned out he basically can't see. He was fine at home, with routines and knowing where he was, but he was all at sea at school. He has been changed so much by having glasses. I know it's a bit off the wall, but thought I would offer it because it has been so significant for us.

[Wolfie2]

Yes get his eyes and ears tested

Also what does he say about this boy?

[Dollydoll]

His eyes where tested during the summer holidays as he said his eyes where sore in between waiting for a doctors appt I took him to the optician. His eyes are 100% I thought he may have suffered hayfever as I did when I was a child but that turned out fine as well. His ears have not been tested but will arrange for that tomorrow.

He says the boy sometimes hits him and on Tuesday he said that my ds had spiderwebs on his strawberries at snack time!! He said the boy was bad a few weeks ago but now he's good. I still don't understand why this boy does not have a book as his name is being brought up by other parents for not good behaviour. I spoke to the teacher before about the boy only a few weeks into school that he was hitting ds and to keep a lookout for this it was brushed off (steam nearly flew out of my ears). I then wrote a letter to both the teacher and principal with the same content and the principal wrote back a lovely letter saying the situation would be monitored. A pushing incident today has been written in and states was not provoked!!

I'm lost as ds played for 2 hours after school today with his 2 cousins and not once was there a raised voice or hitting/pushing.

[Wolfie2]

I would start emailing the school each time your DS is hit or bullied. A short factual email so you all have a running log of various on going things. At the moment they are building up a negative record of his actions and nothing of the poor behaviour he is on the receiving end of. You could email something like - 'Dear teacher, today Tony informed me that Randolph hit him in the stomach at lunchtime. Please could you investigate and keep me updated. Thanks'

Some children are very sneaky. They can give the impression to staff they are angels but are really manipulative and bulling other children behind teachers backs. It can often take a long time for teachers to grasp what's really happening.

Is there a reward system in place for him? What happens when he's good?

[Wolfie2]

What does your DS say about the pushing incident?

[Wolfie2]

If things don't improve over the next few weeks, I would talk to the head about a different system which rewards good behaviour - rather then the moan book.

I would also highlight to staff that he had no problems/hitting at nursery or at home - so why is this happening now? Why is it only happening at school? What's going on? Get them to try and really work out what's going on.

I wouldn't totally dismiss the ASD or Aspergers possibility though. I've known two children who are high functioning and diagnosed aged 10! The fact he likes order and struggles with change is interesting.

[Dollydoll]

When I ask why he has hit or pushed he says he was annoyed. Asked the reason why he was annoyed but he says he doesn't know.

According to ds if he gets 10 good stamps in his book he is able to get sweets from the treasure box.

I think I will start writing in this book that I feel like burning anything that others maybe doing to him so the teacher can see it plus I will keep a copy for myself.