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7 year old not dry at night- what to do?

(26 Posts)
willthiseverbloodystop Fri 10-Jul-15 21:51:32

Just to mention that my username is not related to this post!!

My dd has never ever been remotely dry at night. I ve tried every summer and lifted her and she's managed a few dry nights then got fed up with the lifting and refused and we ve had wet beds.

She is about to enter y3 and I am worried as in y4 there is a residential. So i want to crack this in yr3 . I was thinking of waiting until the autumn when she is back in a routine, as I think the summer didn't work in part due to late meals etc.

I was also thinking of trying with a sticker chart and pull ups on, but lifting. I just know she can't do it withiut being lifted and a friend did it recently by lifting and then making the lifting later and later and eventually just stopping. Dd is not massively keen on trying though and I know would be resistant to lifting.

Can anyone help? Is it worth getting one of those Alarm things? She doesn't wake up fir anything though!

Jasonandyawegunorts Sat 11-Jul-15 11:37:43

7 is the Age your GP will start taking it seriously as it's now that it's thought of as a medical problem.

So a trip to the GP wouldn't hurt.

Spintastic Sat 11-Jul-15 11:45:43

I'd visit the doctor for advice

And I wouldn't link this is ANY way to a reward chart etc. it's a physiological issue and not something she can help right now.

MarySlessor Sat 11-Jul-15 17:53:27

Yes definitely go to your gp.

For my ds to be dry at night he can not drink much in the evenings and has to do a wee twice before going to bed (use toilet, brush teeth, use toilet again), three times if he has drank more than usual. Also, he never drinks anything fizzy as that seems to trigger him being wet at night.

Good luck

meisiemee Sat 11-Jul-15 18:03:16

I would call the doctor/school nurse in the first instance but I really would not worry yet. Our doctors school nurse said to me if at 8 and DC still not dry then to go back to her.

madwomanbackintheattic Sat 11-Jul-15 18:11:48

Most areas use 7 as their referral point to the enuresis clinic.
Just have a chat with the gp, but it's really very common. As a youth leader with this age group, there are still always kids in any group using pull ups or night wetting at this point. I'm sure the teachers will reassure you. You can work with them to arrange how to handle it for maximum privacy and efficiency on the residential trip if you need to, but it's not a big deal.

Good luck x

madwomanbackintheattic Sat 11-Jul-15 18:16:55

Oh, I just realized that she's only going into y3, so the residential is at least 18mos away.
Honestly, don't start worrying about this now - your worry will track down to dd. it really is quite normal and nothing to be worried about, especially 18 mos in advance...
See the gp at some point, but try not to angst. It's very common and just one of those things. There are a couple of routes to try (two main reasons why DC wet are hormonal - literally not yet mature enough - and deep sleepers who don't wake when they need to go. So when you or the doc decide that the DC need help, they will suggest either mess - synthetic hormone for those whose bodies are not producing it - or an enuresis alarm - for deep sleepers whose bodies will adapt to waking when they need to go)

But in the next 18mos it's quite likely that it will happen naturally and not require any external help.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore Sat 11-Jul-15 18:58:13

I'd ask the GP for a referral to the enuresis clinic. Generally until her body is producing a sufficient level of vasopressin, she won't be dry at night. But when they reach a certain age (generally 7 or 8) they will look to rule out any other causes and then there is an option of meds (as madwoman has mentioned - a synthetic hormone similar to vasopressin) that does the same job until her body finally kicks in that hormone on its own.

willthiseverbloodystop Mon 13-Jul-15 12:49:58

I think she sleeps too deeply, so I take the advice about no reward chart but I wouldn't mind trying an alarm . Once we stayed at my parents and she slept more lightly and got up twice for a wee and was dry, but that is the only time . Eric do a pack including an alarm but it's quite expensive.

She's not keen to try and wants to stay in pull ups, but I m not sure if she is nervous and also in the past when we ve tried there has been such a lot of wee that it's soaked up to her toys and that's upset her. She's only just 7, but once she is out at night, she's out! I think I have transferred my concern to her so need to get that in hand before raising the issue again.

I m worried at a residential that as she is very huggy with her friends it would be really obvious she had a pull up on, and I just don't want her to worry about it. The residential is almost 2 years away though.

Should I wait until next spring, when she is 7 3/4, befire trying alarm? I m just worried I m not trying hard enough, and she does also deliberately wee in her pull up so it's hard to see the extent of the issue.

How can I get her to,want to be dry without making it reward based? Basically she won't try anything unless she is sure she can do it so I thinks that's why she is not keen.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore Mon 13-Jul-15 12:53:45

Speak to her GP, see if they will refer her to an enuresis clinic. They will go over all this with you and provide you with loads of tips as well as helping verify that there's not a medical reason for it.

willthiseverbloodystop Mon 13-Jul-15 12:54:28

I will admit that possibly I need to back off, thinking about it. I ve said no sleepovers until she is dry as I am worried about her friends finding out and teasing her. I was quite badly bullied at school so I m always trying to protect her but she s a very very different character and as bully proof as it's possible to make a child, just in her own character. I don't know if at some point I should mention GP / alarm option but say it's up to,her to decide when she wants to try?

willthiseverbloodystop Mon 13-Jul-15 12:56:12

We have a GP partner who I really like and who helped me when I was suffering DV, so she might be good. Should I go alone for a chat or do it with dd?

kelda Mon 13-Jul-15 12:57:44

Yes see your doctor. They can help, there are loads of things they can advise. Ds is 6y9m and only just dry at night time, despite being dry during the day since before he was two. We tried lifting him but as the child gets older, this is exhausting, and disturbs the sleep.

bikeandrun Mon 13-Jul-15 13:03:01

My ds is 10 has been to the clinic ( referred age 8) has made improvements but is not 100% dry( down to about 1 night in 7 now) he uses medication from the gp for sleepovers/ camping which is very effective ( needed a double dose on doctors advice) don't withhold sleepovers from her this will seem like a punishment. I also only reward ds for things that are within his control ie saying no to red drinks, drinking 6 cups of drink throughout the day, stripping his bed if it is wet. It is a medical condition and not his fault, but the steps to manage it are within his control.

PandasRock Mon 13-Jul-15 13:04:00

I had this with one of mine.

We had residentials in yr 2 and 3 to consider too!

In yr 2, there was no getting around it. I talked to her teacher, and arrangements were made for privacy and discretion (including 2 pairs of identical pyjamas, in case of a soaking!). It worked ok, apart from the fact that blunt honesty came into play, and when asked, my dc had no worries about being honest (clearly taken my 'everyone is different, and there's no need to worry' message on board too strongly!). All was well enough, although we did get a couple of comments in yr3 relating to pull ups.

It seemed as though there was no end in sight - regularly soaked through each night, and a very deep sleeper. But then suddenly, it did. By 8 1/2 dc is now reliably dry. In the last 3 months, there has been maybe one wet night, and even then not a flood. What worked for us in the end was time and patience, (and lots of repeating about not worrying etc)and also a reminder to go to the loo last thing before bed. Routine went: get ready for bed & go to loo. Faff around while younger siblings put to bed, then clean teeth/have stories, and go to loo again before getting into bed. Then, usually, there was a period of reading - we emphasised again and again to go to the loo before settling down for the night. Lots of initial resistance to this, given the existing routine, but it seemd this helped do the trick.

Good luck, and it will happen. (We were spared extra arrangements for yr 3 residential, as dry nights happened just before, but I had my fingers crossed that the spare pj's wouldn't be needed!)

feetheart Mon 13-Jul-15 13:09:13

I only started looking for a solution with DS when HE started to get a bit concerned about still being wet at night (think he was nearly 8)
I spoke to the school nurse, who was also the local enuresis nurse. Her suggestions were:
- go to GP to rule out infections, etc
- ditch the pull-ups and use bed mats instead (probably for the same reasons as ditching nappies when potty training)
- Lots to drink in the day - builds up bladder capacity
- No 'red' or fizzy drinks in the few hours before bedtime - acts as a stimulant
We did all of the above but it took until about 4 months ago, when he was 9 and a half, before he was regularly dry - sorry, that's probably not what you wanted to hear.
He also went on Beaver and Cub camps with pull-ups and everything was very subtle and well handled and he certainly wasn't the only one, even in Cubs (8-10 yr olds)

Good luck with it, you will get there in the end.

feetheart Mon 13-Jul-15 13:11:09

Oh yes, add "wee, teeth, wee" to the list, forgot that one!

willthiseverbloodystop Mon 13-Jul-15 13:57:08

Brilliant this is SO helpful! Her friends mum who asked about sleepover is actually a paediatric doctor and has reassured me it's fine , her dd is only dry about 6 months and so hopefully not a massive issue if she finds out,esp ,as her mum can explain it to her. I have my doubts about dd being mature enough for a sleepover given our extended bedtime routine but I think I ll talk to,her and say she can have sleepovers and if she wants to keep private there are ways to do so. and that's really useful knowing about medication for residentials.

We do wee teeth stories wee and she complains but alway goes. She barely drinks in the day and I can't make her do it but as a new single mum I do feel she needs some independence not least to help me. as I still do everything for her, even towelling, often helping wiping with no 2s as she gets infections down below quite easily. And year 3 seems to be all about independence and I think it would help her if she gained a bit of confidence in doing things for herself. In time of course I m hoping this would lead to a desire to be dry. She has always liked nappies, I had her dry at 2 in day but she wasn't happy about it!

I'll do a reward chart for being more independent and add drinking more in day to it. That was the only advice a nurse gave me a while back, to make her drink more in day to be dry at night.

And at some point in a separate m e I will take her for a chat with GP about things that might help, but maybe towards end of year 3, as I do wonder if she would benefit from an alarm, but no point while she's still just so wet and also has no wish to be dry. It's probably good,for me to tell her there are things that can help as I think she just thinks it's completely impossible

PandasRock Mon 13-Jul-15 14:24:44

Yes, drinking in the day has a big effect.

Mine also doesn't drink enough. When we worked on that (and that alone) it led to the odd dry night here and there - enough (just about) for me to be able to point out a correlation. So we tried to concentrate on the drinking.

It did help.

And try to get the last-thing wee into the routine. Even if she doesn't think she needs one. Mine was surprised when often, it was necessary - 'but it didn't feel as though I needed a wee, mummy'. I have said over and over, if awake for any reasonable length of time past lights out (last wee done before lights out, obvs), then another wee (or a try) is needed. It's surprising how often it is actually needed.

On residentials and sleepovers, I have emphasised with staff/other mums that that last thing wee is vital. The one after the last wee, the one right before settling down to sleep. So far, it has worked.

Whereisegg Mon 13-Jul-15 14:35:00

Yy to no reward chart, drinking more in the day, and double wee at bedtime.
Op I have a huge post on this section called ds 7.4 (I think) second dry night, is this it.

I got a huge amount of advice and I used it as a diary to chart our progress, we went with an alarm bought from amazon, he has been dry about a year now, so it could be a helpful read for you.

Good luck smile

BingBong36 Mon 13-Jul-15 14:38:53

I have the same problem with my son, he is 7 in December.

I have to put him in proper nappies as pull ups do not hold it. He more often than not soak through his nappy to the sheets.

He wee's 2-3 times before bed and I restrict his water in take after 7.

Not sure what else I can do but it's becoming a nightmare, he is such a dro sleeper!! Even when we have forgotten the nappy and he wee's he still will not wake angry

ErrolTheDragon Mon 13-Jul-15 14:44:47

I'm not at all sure it's a good idea to get an alarm unless you're specifically advised to by an expert. It does sound like the source of your DD's problems may be the same as it was for mine - not drinking enough, low bladder capacity. If that's what really needs addressing then having her woken up in the night by an alarm, or you 'lifting' may not be helpful. (I may be wrong but I think the hormone maturity problems are commoner in boys).

'She barely drinks in the day and I can't make her do it' - I'd definitely try to get her referred to an enuresis clinic. So that it's the nurse, not you, who's telling her how much she needs to drink (and why). I think it can help the child take ownership of the issue, rather than it being mummy nagging IYSWIM - and ultimately that's what they have to do.

You're wise to start thinking through this now, ahead of those residentials! We didn't have any till yr5 so by the time we got to it, pullups and wet beds were a dim and distant memory.

And do remember - this is a very common thing. At this age there will typically be one or two in every class - it's just not something that anyone ever discusses IRL. (it's what brought me to MN, a decade or so ago!)

madwomanbackintheattic Mon 13-Jul-15 15:18:44

If she is not keen, do NOT get an alarm.

End of, really.

They will only work with a motivated kid and will either be a waste of time or a source of misery and angst for a child who is not motivated. Really. (Mine used to subconsciously disconnect his...)

The only other thing I will say is that you are unnecessarily introducing angst and misery and stress into a perfectly normal situation. No sleepovers until she is dry? You are punishing her for some thing she has no control over, and your stress levels over the subject will be making it harder for her, and making it more stressful.

It's really very normal at this point. The reason no one talks about it is just embarassment and shame, and the kids are forced into hiding with no sleepovers allowed etc etc, which just means that the next round of kids and parents think it's abnormal and something to hide as well.

It's hard to break that. It's just one of those things and will likely iron out itself very soon, maybe with a bit of help.

OohMrDarcy Mon 13-Jul-15 15:28:32

An alarm is great - if (and only if ) it is the childs idea / motivation

I'm nearly 4 weeks into using one with my 5.5 DS - it was his idea (I was reticent actually, having read age should be more like 7 plus the motivation) ... but we gave it a go, we've just had 3 nights in a row dry - for the first time ever, and the alarm hasn't gone off. I know he drinks a lot in the day, and I know he is a deep sleeper so had a feeling it would help

however... after a week of broken sleep even he wasn't keen to have it attached at bedtime, so glad he chose to persevere as it seems to be clicking now.

bikeandrun Mon 13-Jul-15 15:42:04

Another good tip if your house is warm my ds tends to use an opened up sleeping bag and a couple funky fleece blankets- actually looks really nice, no one would associate it with bed wetting make up the bed in the following manner- waterproof mattress cover sheet, second waterproof cover then sheet. Easy to sort out in the night and easy to wash. This is not my ds's fault and I don't want him to even get a hint that I am annoyed washing, drying and struggling with duvets and covers

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