AAARRRRGGHHHH........My dd is ruling the house! She's only 2.9....and is telling me, her sister and her Dad what to do...help!!!

[barney2]

Went out today - she refused to walk and insisted on being carried. She refused to use a public loo (in Waitrose) so she wee'd in the crouched position by the side of the car in the car park. Went into a easy going family environment eating place - she refused to eat her lunch and start lobbing baked beans across the table, so I had to get up and leave.....nightmare. Took her home and she was absolutely fine. She's been good all evening and is now tucked up in bed fast asleep.

I never give her the attention she obviously wants when she's naughty so why on earth is she being such a little devil?

[TyrNannyOgg]

You haven't mentioned whether you punished her for misbehaving?

[barney2]

I tend to ignore her when she's being naughty because I don't want to give her the attention she wants for being naughty, if you see what I mean. She's at that age when I don't know how much of what we tell her she actually understands. I've tried sitting her on the stairs etc but she just gets herself worked up and cries/screams. I use depravation and will take things away, turn the tv off etc because I'm sure that works better but she just seems to know how to really get to me at the moment, and her Dad - he's much more easy going than me and he's finding it very stressful, especially in public places because everyone stares at us with the usual looks of disgust etc.

I wonder if starting playschool has anything to do with her sudden down-turn in behaviour - she only started two weeks ago and she's changed alot already - far more confident/bossy etc.

Any suggestions? Having got an elder daughter already (8) I think I know it all about parenting but I don't!!! Help!

[Snowstorm]

DD2 is also 2 years 9 months and is exactly the same - it's exasperating isn't it - but I think it's just a stage that we have to endure. We need to pick and choose our battles, count to ten (in an effort to keep calm) a lot and, most importantly, be consistent at all times in our approach with regards to what is and what isn't acceptable. That and copious amounts of wine in the evening should do it until it all blows over ... or we fall over

[TyrNannyOgg]

She does sound averagely two. Playschool, hmm, she has probably seen other children behaving like that.

[morningpaper]

you can buy a fold-up toilet seat - I found that mine would use any toilet if she could use the fold-up toilet seat

lobbing food requires a bollocking IMO

[barney2]

Thanks snowstorm. It drives my patience to the absoulte limit, especially when we're out and about. She will refuse to get in a trolley in Tescos so I now have to do the shopping in the evenings when DH is home, she refuses to get in the buggy so I have to 'force' her in which I know isn't ideal but I have no choice, she's difficult to get into the car, she's a pain getting into the bath....I can deal with her if I'm in the right frame of mind but other times, when I'm not, I could quite easily push her out the backdoor and leave her. She is a lovely little girl but why do I have to have one that can be so difficult, embarrassing, causes my stress levels to go through the roof and my poor 8yo dd sits there and stares into space! I had no problems at all with the elder one at this age - or is that because she had more one to one whereas the younger one doesn't get that quite so much?

Oh I don't know.....

[barney2]

Interesting re playgroup.....she started saying 'what' each time I asked her something...she's never done this before so I told her she should say 'pardon'. So now each time she doesn't hear what I've said she says 'what pardon'....

[barney2]

I agree lobbing food requires a bollocking but surely not in a public place? I hate drawing attention to naughty behaviour so I thought I was doing the right thing by leaving? I put her in the car and stood beside the car for ten minutes because I was soooo angry.

Tell you what though I get so fed up with the way people can stare when a child is playing up -have they never had children do this before? I see some kids who are far worse than mine yet I don't stare! Its always the 'older generation' who have horrified looks on their faces - they must think I'm a typical Mother, out of control...perhaps they're right?!!

[fondant4000]

Not that it's any help, but I don't think it's because she's second child. My dd exactly like this and she is the first! My dh says she's strongwilled "just like you"

My dd seems to need the world ordered in a particular way, and straying from the plan, or trying to help her do ANYTHING just drives her into meltdown. She has got a little better since I went on maternity leave (baby due in 2 weeks), so I wonder if it was connected with me working or if it's just because she's now 3.5.

I think changes like playgroup may make her try and take control more at home, so maybe it's just a question of patience while she settles in?

TBH I found disciplining or any interaction generally made the behaviour worse, leaving her alone seemed to improve things, so I'd stick to your current mode - but that's just IMO.

[TyrNannyOgg]

hahahaha, there is the vital clue

" ...surely not in a public place? I hate drawing attention to naughty behavior"

She senses your flusterment. That's why she was as good as gold when she got home, because she knows you won't tell her of so readily in public and she wants to see how far she can go.

Ds1 does it, he is 3.6.

[notsoladyjess]

not sure if i can add much but i totally empathise with you. ds1 is 3 next month and while he is a lovely boy, it feels like he rules the household at the moment. he is such a fusspot about everything (he is refusing to wear trousers or long sleeved tops at the mo) and loads of things are a real struggle and there are times when i just CANNOT be arsed with it at all.
ds2 is just over a year and i see he has started mimicking ds1's behaviour. arghhhh!
i am more worried about how short my fuse has become and i stay calm for a bit but then find myself screaming at him. it is just not acceptable and need to sort it out but at times he just pushes me so much.
i must say though that when he bahaves badly i do discipline and take him away from the situation (say if we are at a friend's house to play, i will tell him if he continues to behave like that we will leave with no pudding, or whatever it is he really wants). prob terrible way to do things but i find it works. carrying through with threats is important too. he is so inncredulous that i stick with it but usually find he doesn't do it again.

oone thing that is a bit of a prob is that my MIL lets him boss her around when she visits (which is every 2 weeks). aftere one of her visits i find him more difficult to handle. we have had to tell her not to jump to his every order. we shall see how that goes as she can't help herself!

good luck. i am hoping it is a phase but hope i can keep my cool in the meantime, i feel it is turning me mad.

[barney2]

I know....but I don't want to tell her off in public!!! Again I don't know how much of a telling off she understands and when I do try and reason with her she just screams at me so can't hear what I'm saying anyway and nor can I hear myself speak! I wonder if she picks up on stress at home because whilst I try to play the right Motherly role and not get worked up over bad behaviour there are times when I shout etc and she will shout back! My Mum says she's like me when I was a little girl - stomps around, slams doors etc etc. She's a typical child that just wants her own way all the time and she's not going to get it because I won't let her.

I'm just worried she'll be the first child at playgroup being kept behind for detention or doing lines!

[barney2]

How can us Mums be expected to keep our cool all the time? When my DD decides to have a tantrum she always seems to choose exactly the right moment....when I'm on the phone, when I'm ironing, in the middle of cooking tea, when I'm running to the loo for a wee, when I'm driving around a roundabout or in busy traffic....now how can a child of her age know that she's picked the most inconvenient time to throw a paddy and that, as a consequence, it really winds Mummy up?

[notsoladyjess]

i know how you feel!
i think maybe we should relax a bit and not keep thinking loads of years on and what terrible effect this will have on them in years to come!!
i keep thinking he will be so bossy that he will have no friends (he is also incapable of sharing anything!).
i think i just need a rest from everything, it might giive me some perspective.
i think the comment about being consistent and calm is a good one.

[duke]

Ahh some one else who has a child that won't wear long trousers. my ds 2yrs.4mths takes all his clothes off as soon as we are in the house. now it's getting colder he sometimes wears pants. He insists on shorts when we are out and about saying long trousers are too heavy! When he protest about something, before I say no I think does it really matter. But If I say no it's no till the end. Don't worry about telling her off in public, if you don't you just know some granny is looking at you thinking why isn't she telling that child off.

[Peridot30]

Welcome to the world of being nearly 3! Ive got dd who was 3 last month abd she is just the same. Hoping its just a phase but who knows. She has got slightly better....... but only just

[TyrNannyOgg]

They are delightful little dictators, though.

[notsoladyjess]

ah duke - i thought we were the only ones with the shorts thing!! haha!
mine won't wear trousers as he doesn't like the way they sit on his shoes. and short sleeves tshirts are what steven gerrard wears. god, he is not even 3, how does he even know the name of a football player?!
i have been considering putting him in tights under his shorts to keep him warm - my husband was not keen.
men in tights.

[Snowstorm]

I think they understand more than we think they do when it comes to playing up! I also think it's really important to discipline them consistently whether you are at home or out and about as otherwise they will pick up on it really quickly and you'll be in all sorts of trouble. (NB. mental note to selves - try and leave the fish-wife-hysterical voice at home though ). Also, I know it's easier said than done but I think part of being a mum is learning to ignore everyone else when you are in public ... those who are parents will completely understand and those who aren't have got it all to come. As for the older generation, it's not that their children were perfectly brought up, it's merely a case that they have their rose tinted glasses on and I think they honestly don't remember that they went through similar stuff too.

Although I sort of understand that you don't want to draw attention to your child's bad behaviour, I don't really understand how this method of dealing with naughtiness can work as presumably the child either just carries on doing whatever's driving you mad or ups the ante (or however you spell it) and gets worse? I don't know your family and so I might be out of line in saying this but ... it might also be more consistent within your family to be seen to be disciplining both children if they do wrong - ie. it might be encouraging for your eight year old to see that her sister isn't just getting away with everything.

In saying all that it is hard and I don't belive it's a second child thing either, I think it's just that this is how some children are at around this age. I think it's also a struggle for independence, so if you are ever in the position where you can offer your daughter a choice in the things that she does (both options being acceptable to you obviously), then that might help a bit - that and the old tried and tested distraction technique when things begin to kick off.

Sorry this is so long.

[nzshar]

Wow was reading through this thread and had all my thoughts ready to type out but then got to Snowstorms post and she has said all i wanted to say

I remember my grandmother (84 at the time) saying to me that consistency is the key to life. I have always (ok almost always ) tried to remember this gem of advice.

[fussymummy]

I have a 3 year old who thinks she rules the roost.

Tries telling us and her older brother (age 8), and sister (age 5) what to do.

Most of the time, she's brilliant.

She has her days though.

Have you tried saying to her that if she doesn't do something by the time you've counted to 3, then she'll be in trouble???

It works for all of mine.

[octobermum]

You don't have to tell her off in public, you just have to explain what you want her to do, and what well happen if she dosen't do what you want.

Eg my dd is 2yrs 10mths if she won't walk holding my hand she has to go in her buggy, no if or buts this what happens and she knows.

buy a portable potty or toilet seat, my dd doesn't feel safe on a big toilet.

As for throwing food tell it not nice tell to stop and if she doesn't then take it away from her. Let her it back if she will eat nicely.

A 2.9yrs old understands how you want them to behave if you are consistent for example my dd has been preschool 2 times a week and on the friday session she tried to bite 2 children she has never done this before i told that this is not nice and if she does it again then she will not be going to pre school. So when she went to pre school on tuesday i explained that if when i picked her up that i was told that had tried to bite again she will not be going on Friday and she knows this will happen. So she was back to her normal well behaved child.

[barney2]

I've tried the 'count to 3' trick but she just copies me and counts up to 5. She doesn't 'appear' to understand what I mean when I say 'on a count of 3' etc yet she's clever enough to copy and count beyond 3.

I agree I should discipline her in public but I absolutely hate the stares I get. It makes me feel like I'm a failed Mother and yet I've managed to bring up a well behaved elder child. Whenever I see a child playing up, especially in a packed restaurant where all people want is peace and quiet whilst they're eating their meal, I look across with full sympathy and try my hardest to ignore whatever is going on because that's what I'd expect from those having to endure my child misbehaving. I had some old woman glaring over her glasses at me yesterday - I felt like turning her plate of food upwards and down her lap. My blood was boiling because I was cross with DD so I just got up, bundled her up and walked out.

I flatly refuse to let this little monster of mine rule my life - she's only a young child and I'm an adult!!! Its just that sometimes it feels that all she does is scream, cry, kick up and generally be a pain in the neck all day.

The days never seem to start very well because she won't let me go into her bedroom to get her up in the morning, she always wants her Dad. Then she'll refuse to get dressed (we help her), she'll then tell us she wants the jam taken off her toast (even though she's asked for it) so I tell her its jam on toast or nothing at all, then she'll refuse to get in the buggy for me to walk the other one to school, she kicks up when I do up the harness in the buggy (otherwise she'll get out) so I have to push her into the buggy, she'll then scream for the next five minutes and I just ignore her. This is the sort of pattern we have during our day.

By the end of the day I'm exhausted, usually have a headache, irritable, I've probably not sat down all day, and still have a list of jobs to do when she's gone to bed. Oh and by the way I work part-time too and have a Mother to look after whose been recently widowed (my father died a year ago today in fact...which may explain why I'm so stressed out at the moment).

[fondant4000]

Barney, are you listening to her when she's calm - sorry if that sounds incredibly patronising!!

My dd wd have days when she really, really dragged her feet about getting ready for pre-school. I was so wound up, worrying about being being late, that I was dealing with her behaviour - not the problem and we both ended up shouting.

When I was talking to her one lazy Saturday morning, I asked more about school, and realised that she was being particularly obstructive on the days when her 'best friend' didn't go to school. So all the feet dragging and tantrums actually had a cause.

I changed her days, and was more aware and patient on days when her friend was not going to be there, and now she goes in happily.

When she is in a good moment she's actually able to say what makes her upset, there's no way she could say it when she is actually getting upset.

If you notice certain situations trigger her 'going off' (e.g. eating out) it might be worth asking her about it at a different time.

I realise this might sound like a load of hippy s**t, and def not to be attempted when you're trying to get somewhere! I'm not saying there's always a reason, but sometimes what they say can be surprising....

[notsoladyjess]

hi barney - you poor thing.
try to stick with the consistent, calm approach.
sorry to hear about your dad passing away. sounds like you have loads on your plate.
i work part time too and some days i just cannot be bothered with ds1's whingeing after a day of work.
it is weird actually as i just had a really nice day with both boys and it make such a difference. fills me with optimism.
good luck lady.x