routine for 11 month old, dropping a feed/nap and getting some sleep!

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Hi all
New here so please be kind :)
My ds2 is, like his brother was, a hideously early riser. Often 4:30, sometimes 4, never past 5. I'm wondering if I tweak his routine, that he might sleep better...
He currently
gets up 4:30, has formula
Has breakfast at 6ish
Nap and formula at 8 for an hour
Lunch at 11:30
Nap and bottle 12-2
Snack at 3ish
Tea at 5ish
Bed and formula at 7

My current thinking is that if he had less milk he might eat more, therefore sleep better. Or maybe if I cut morning nap then he'd get up later... I just don'tknow
He seems to really need that morning nap and bottle, and the other nap/bottle I'm.guessing are the ones he'll keep as he gets older. He's walking, but that hasn't made him sleep better. Should I introduce a dreamfeed?! He does wake up hungry and just won't settle. Him and ds1 (2.5) share a room, otherwise I'd probably let him CIO as suspect he'd go back to.sleep
Help!

[Jaffakake]

I'm trying to remember but at 11 months I think ds followed:

7am wake & 8oz formula
8-8:30 breakfast
10 sleep
11 lunch
2.30 sleep
4 dinner
5:30-6 snack
6:30 8oz formula
7 sleep

He was a big baby & is known as the human dustbin at nursery. He's always liked his sleep (it's genetic!) I think we dropped milk after his second nap around this time, if not soon after.

At 12 months we definitely went over to cows milk and we're on one bottle/ cup morning and night. I'd be surprised if a dream feed would help. At this age onwards they can go through the night, for instance when they've been poorly & not ate well, so I'd think you should be able to get enough calories in him during the day. It's worth a try to tweak the routine.

It could just be they're genetically disposed to be early risers I'm afraid.

[givemecaffeine21]

Mine is:

7am awake & formula

7.45am -breakfast

10am / 10.30am -snack

11.45am - lunch

12-2 - nap

3.30pm - snack

5pm - dinner

Bath, bottle and in bed at 6.30pm

It's no wonder he needs his 8am nap if he's awake at 4am, you poor thing! I really, really feel for you! I would, and it will be hard work at first, stretch him out and try to put the morning nap back to 9am, then the next one at 12. I'd do this for a few days then gradually move it to 9.30am. The other thing might be to cut his morning nap down a bit. I did 20 minutes morning nap and 2 hours at lunch.

Bear in mind he'll be bloom in' grumpy about it! My DS really had to be persuaded into a routine that was acceptable, unlike DD, and it wasn't much fun but it has paid off. He dropped his morning nap recently because he no longer wanted it and would scream but equally was tired .... so we rode the storm, kept him busy and distracted, and he's fine now with just the lunchtime nap.

The other thing is do you use a blackout blind? They really do make ALL the difference to their sleep. I have a black out blind (you could even buy a gro blind from amazon) and also black out lining on the curtains as there were a few gaps causing early waking; I also realised DS's cot was opposite the door which is opposite the landing window and cracks of light were getting through waking him when the sun came up so made sure to close the blind each night.

I hope something helps. Gina Ford isn't very popular on here, and to be honest I understand why as she is a tad military, but I had her book given to me The Complete Sleep Guide and it did really help me work out a routine and what could be causing some of the problems we experienced. Something must have worked as he's very good now!

[givemecaffeine21]

I would also think he's having too much formula from the sound of it and would give a bigger breakfast, maybe a banana with it. My son only has two bottles a day now he's 11.5 months and eats heartily at mealtimes. I found the other bottles totally decreased his appetite. Also look at what he is eating as certain foods promote sleep (like banana) and I always make sure dinner involves carbs to fill mine up I.e. Rice or pasta or bread.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Cheers for the replies. I'm going to try sorting his morning nap I think. I agree about too much formula, I'm just not sure which bottle to try and lose. Any recommendations? Most obvious is the second bottle before first nap, but I've noticed that other baby's routines they don't have a bottle on waking. I wonder if we stopped that it might help with not waking early?

[ZuleikaD]

Yes, that would be my suggestion- his stomach is used to eating at 4.30 and that might be what's waking him. OTOH I have three larks and DS2 (13m) wakes at 4.50 each day despite never getting breakfast before 5.45. I would lose the middle-of the-day bottles too and boost his solids.

[givemecaffeine21]

Good idea - if you strung the bottle out for half an hour the first day and gradually increased it that might help a lot. I'd lose the lunchtime bottle for starters, but as his days get shorter I.e. Not getting up so early, the second bottle will naturally edge out.

I'd write a plan, so try putting things back 30 mins one day, then 45 the next etc and stick to it. It can't be making anyone in your house feel good being up so early, you poor thing!

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Got him to stay up until half eight bref

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Stupid phone!
Got him to half eight before nap this morning.
I can't decide whether to lose first or second bottle in the morning, I'm too tired! If we try to ditch first then that may discourage him from early waking, so make him hang on until six for breakfast. But then he's been all night with nothing. But if I ditch second all that's doing is cutting down milk, and he may be waking for that first bottle. Argh, dilemma! If it

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Was just him then I'd do bottle at six, breakfast at 7:30. But he has to fit round the toddler sadly. Do you think it matters which one?!

[givemecaffeine21]

What time does the toddler get up? Id push bottle no.1 back gradually (30 mins a day) and lose bottle no.2 entirely. Given how long he's been getting up at 4.30 (which I'm guessing is a while?) it will take a bit of time to change the routine but doing it inch by inch each day you WILL get there. You've just got to be firm with yourself and not crumble because 4.30am is just not civilised .

[LittlePink]

At 11 mths my LO was on two feeds, morning and bedtime. She was on the 2,3,4 schedule. Wake 6.30, nap 8.30 for 1.5 hrs, nap 1pm for 1 hour then bath/bed 6/6.30.

Its getting him past this 4.30 thing so I would do something very unfavourable for you and set your alarm for 4am, go in gently rouse him by changing his position which will re set his sleep cycles and hence break the habit of waking at this time. Im not joking it works. I did it myself with my LO when she was waking at 5am every day and it worked. What have you got to lose?

[givemecaffeine21]

Good idea LP - I'd forgotten about that! I did that for DS's naps as he wouldn't go past a few minutes, then eventually 40 mins - within 2 weeks he had proper two hour naps at lunchtime. It really did work.

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Hey, thought I'd come back and woop

[twolittleboysonetiredmum]

Stupid phone, not woop but weep :( have cut down to a bottle morning and night which has been fine, put him down for a later morning nap. The last two mornings he's been raring to go from 4am :(( what time should I rouse him to try that then? Half three?
I was debating severely cutting his naps, read online somewhere that cutting them by 75% works as well, though seems cruel. What do you think? If waking him doesn't work that is.

[paz479]

Hi,

My little girl turned 10 months a few days ago. I'm starting to get worried about dropping milk feeds as I use them for her naps/bed time sleep. She sleeps 10-12 hours at night. She also has 1 or 2 naps in the day depending on what time she woke. She'll always have a bottle and cuddle before sleep then one first thing when she wakes. So she's on 4 bottles a day totalling to max 21 oz. how many oz should they get at this age? Is this to much? Could I take the first morning bottle from her but then how soon from waking should I do breakfast? She eats 3 meals a day.... sometimes she eats a lot of it other days not as much. I would like her to eat more solids but also don't want to disturb the sleep routine Iv got because from vigorously rocking to sleep as well as frequent night wakings we're both finally happy!

[Claire543210]

I think the early morning wake ups are just something that some babies do. My lo was the same, 4am every morning. She is 14 months now and has just started sleeping until 5:30. I tried everything and nothing seemed to work. The only thing I have changed (don't know if this helped or just coincidence) was her naps. Would let her have 1.5 hours morning nap but only 30-45 mins Afternoon nap. My lo goes to bed at 6:30, just done sleep training and can lay her in cot and walk out, she's asleep almost instantly. Before sleep training I think she was walking at 4 am wanting me.