Cannot take DD anywhere

[BlahBlahYackedySmackedy]

Am coming to the end of my tether with DD. If we go anywhere it usually ends in tears, and not just hers.

For example, playgroup. She will be fine for a certain amount of time, but at the end when all the other children sit down and enjoy singing, DD insists on running around everywhere. As she gets more giddy she will try and hug other children. This usually involves her running at another child and grabbing them in a bear hug, usually knocking them both to the ground. Clearly this is distressing for the younger children and I am fed up with the nasty looks and retorts off other mums. The thing is DD does not go to preschool or nursery and so has limited opportunity to play with other children other than at this group and so I do not want to stop going.

Another example is food shopping. I dread this even if it is a quick dash in. She hates going into the seat of the trolley. She can undo the belt provided and so this is a waste of time, and continues to try and climb out. If I put her in the larger part of the trolley she is the same, as well as opening and eating food. When stopped she stands up and tries climbing out shouting "walking". If I let her walk however, she runs around out of sight, throws herself on the floor, pulls items off the shelves and when told to stop throws a huge tantrum and screaming fit. This normally attracts the attention of shop assistants who"kindly" ask if everything is okay. Today the manager even came over and gave her a voucher to get some sweets with if she was good - even this did not work. She ran off into the car park the other day whilst I was trying to return the trolley.

If we go out for something to eat she cannot sit still in a chair and HAS to run around mithering other people who are trying to eat their meals. She is also like this at home.

If we ask her to stop, she ignores us. In fact we have to ask her several times to do anything at all, which usually results in her being shouted at to get her to pay attention - cue another meltdown. I did not want to be a mother who constantly shouted at her child but I am becoming one due to her inability to be good. I know this is not normal, as most other children her age I know are nothing like this.

Sorry for the long post and I'm sure similar things have been posted numerous times before. I just don't know what to do. This has pushed to me tears a few times this week.

[grumpalumpgrumped]

How old is DD?

[Jaffakake]

Can you tell us how old she is? It'll help put her behaviour in context a bit.

[BlahBlahYackedySmackedy]

Sorry she is 2.9

[DetentionExtension]

Have you been to the GP - do you think there could be anything else going on? It is not her being "unable to be good" whatever else it is. She is too young for that.

I would want to speak to the GO before anything else to rule out for eg a hearing problem.

[DeWe]

Ds was climbing out of the trolley by 18 months. I got one of the leather reins you can buy, that have clips on to fit to other things. He couldn't get out of that.
Then the rule was he could walk as long as he held onto the trolley. If he let go, he went back into the seat. He was a bolter, but that worked to a certain extent.

[MyNameIsKenAdams]

At playgroup - as soon as she starts the manic running, "play nicely or I will take you home". If she doesnt play nice, take her home.

Out and about - reins. Choice of sittong nicely in the seat or walking with the reins. If needs be, get the reins with the clips at each side so you can clip her into the seat.

Ive stopped asking DD to do anything more than once. Example, I ask her to come here so I can put her shoes on. If she refuses, I go and get her and bring her over and put her shoes on.

Give consequences to her bad behaviour and follow through. Only give consequences which you are happy to follow through on.

Only ask her to do something once.

DD went through a phase of throwing her stuff on the floor. Id ask her to pick it up and she would say No. Got to the point where if she refused once,.id walk her to the floor lean her over to her toy and put it in her hand, then take her to where I wanted her to put it. Few times of doing that, she stopped refusing to pick stuff up, and a few times after that, stopped throwing stuff altogether.

Stay firm. Stay consistant.

[BlahBlahYackedySmackedy]

I doubt its a problem with her hearing, as she has no problems hearing things that benefit her (such as park or walk or chocolate) and she is still very parrot like in copying everything we say.

I have tried letting her walk with the trolley, even giving her a basket of her own to put light things in, but it never lasts longer than 5 minutes before she is running off screaming.

She has reins and we do use them 99% of the time. But she tries grabbing the rein herself/leaning forward/going on the floor. Its easier walking the dog on his leash.

I have started taking her home after the first incidence at playgroup. She screams all the way home and then once home its like she forgets. It so far has not stopped her grabbing children.

I will try asking her once and once only but I always thought it was best giving her the opportunity to do as I ask. I do understand she is young, but I know she understands what we are saying and it is very frustrating!

[MyNameIsKenAdams]

My LO is two (just) and I worried whether I was expecting too much of her, but when the "Please do X" was constabtly being rebuffed with a "No!hahahahhaa!" I gave up making it a long drawn out process.

Come.and get your coat on
No
Go and get her, bring her back to where you were and put her coat on.

I have a very much an "I cant be doing with all this tooibg and froing crap" attitude

[AgathaPinchBottom]

My ds is 2.11 and is exactly the same as your dd. we have been referred through gp to a behavioural therapist and sleep consultant. We have also had support from portage - there are thoughts it might be hyperactivity I.e. One strand of adhd. Am hoping he will grow out of it but seeking external support has been a big relief and they're helping me learn to deal with his behaviour properly. Part of our problem is his sheer size and weight which means he hurts people when he bear hugs them to the ground (including me!)
... out of interest is your dd pretty advanced in speech? would you describe her as quite bright? Coz it could be iq related too?
All the best with it. You are not alone.

[Onesiegoddess]

Parenting is such hard going sometimes!! Handy hints I can think of

• leave before the singing starts at toddler group

• make sure she is really hungry before you arrive in a cafe. Also make sure she has had a good run around before you arrive too so that any energy is burnt off. Every 10 mins pop out some new activity - drawing, playdoh, cars, little daft things like magnets etc. anything to keep her interested.

• stop shouting! You are both going up end up with a total shouty relationship in the future with her shouting louder! Start using timeout and counting to three. Follow through with any threats. Buy some parenting books off amazon with top reviews. Change the way you are and you will solve all the issues probably.

• to make your life aside though, shop once your partner is home from work or at the weekends.

[BertieBottsJustGotMarried]

I think a lot of children go through a stage like this and it can just be a stage. Is she better with one on one playdates? It might be that she's getting a bit overwhelmed with larger groups at the moment and would benefit from some time out of those for now. Or she might be just outgrowing the playgroup. Are you looking for a nursery for her? She's about the age for preschool now if that's something you wanted to look into - you will find most playgroups have a lot of younger ones. It sounds like she might really benefit from the interaction with older children and the environment of having other adults in charge rather than just you. (Which is not, in any way, a criticism of you - just to say that some children really thrive off interaction with other "in charge" adults and having that to compare to home.)

I despised shopping with small children, do it online or one of you go while the other stays at home with the DC. I could never use reins with DS - too much of a pain. I took his pushchair everywhere instead!

I also find when you're out it can help to rather than leave as soon as there is misbehaviour, remove them from the area temporarily, go to a quiet corner or outside and spell out exactly what you're asking for. "Play nicely" or "Calm down" might seem obvious to you or I but to an excited 2 year old they are not. So you go outside and say exactly what you expect - walk don't run, indoor voices please, take turns with the other children, be gentle, ask mummy if you need help. It can help to explain and remind before you actually arrive, as well, not threatening, just reminding "This is how we behave/play at playgroup".

We think that they understand and perhaps they do, but toddlers need far more reminders than we think. I would not personally go with a punitive approach but you do need to lay down the boundaries, you can do this by reminding and then physically preventing the misbehaviour, which might be a cooling down period outside of the situation (not necessarily on her own) or could be by going home if the situation warrants it but I think that just removing her after one incident is confusing and not actually that clear. Some children might respond well to that, but it probably depends what prompted the misbehaviour in the first place. If she's getting overexcited she might not connect her behaviour with leaving, she's just having a lovely time, then suddenly it's time to go. She won't have much perception of time yet so it may not be clear to her if you've left after 5 minutes or the whole session.

[BlahBlahYackedySmackedy]

Thank you all for the advice.
AgathaPinchBottom I think she is bright in some ways, she can count to 14 name all her colours Shapes Body parts letters etc. Her speech is ok but not advanced for her age, she still copies us a lot. I have wondered if there could be a behavioural problem going on, but I am reluctant to get her labelled with adhd or something when it could just be her age. I think I make excuses for her behaviour a lot though. Every now and then she will shock us by being good so she can do it. We heap the praise on when she is but then it all goes downhill the next time.... I may speak to the HV or GP and see what they say. Shes never been much of a day napper and recently has stopped altogether. However she causes no problems at night.

It's very hard. But I'm willing to try anything!

[ToddleWaddle]

I would agree with shopping online or when your dp is about. Life is too short.
Wear her out, swimming, soft play etc.
I'm restaurants lots of colouring, stickers etc and little puzzles. Highchair if necessary.
Find something she really enjoys, crafts, cooking or even telly and use to bribe. Bribery is wonderful!
My dd1 is 2.10 and quite "spirited".
Also pick your battles.

[BlahBlahYackedySmackedy]

Thank you all for the advice.
AgathaPinchBottom I think she is bright in some ways, she can count to 14 name all her colours Shapes Body parts letters etc. Her speech is ok but not advanced for her age, she still copies us a lot. I have wondered if there could be a behavioural problem going on, but I am reluctant to get her labelled with adhd or something when it could just be her age. I think I make excuses for her behaviour a lot though. Every now and then she will shock us by being good so she can do it. We heap the praise on when she is but then it all goes downhill the next time.... I may speak to the HV or GP and see what they say. Shes never been much of a day napper and recently has stopped altogether. However she causes no problems at night.

It's very hard. But I'm willing to try anything!

[alliswell2]

I know it's distressing and obviously you don't want her upsetting other children but I don't think it sound too far out of the norm. My child wasn't great at playgroup unless there was an outdoor option - then he was fine. Some playgroups have an outdoor space even when it's really cold.
My son is now four. He's boisterous and confident and mixes well. Playgroups just never worked out. But he met other children at the park and for my son and I it wasn't really successful.
Shopping on-line saves your sanity. I don't take my son to restaurants unless it's a McDonald's type set up and usually only with friends with young children.

[BertieBottsJustGotMarried]

Honestly, I think it's just a massive culture shock when they get to this age. Suddenly (some children) DO just become impossible to take out to "normal" places. She doesn't sound behaviourally abnormal. Terrible twos are NOTHING on three, unfortunately!

I've re-read your post and there's nothing that really stands out to me as being a cause for concern.

Yes, it would be better to find a way of getting her attention other than shouting - I would try this as a first resort. I used to have little "debriefs" of the day with DS when I was putting him to bed. Neutral time, no anger/blame, just, a kind of deconstruction of the event and what he was thinking/feeling at the time. I remember asking him in utter frustration (in the day) how he would like me to ask him something because I often escalated into screaming. That helped for a short time. Try to look at things from her perspective too, instead of using that to make excuses, think how you could handle it, explain it to her or prevent it another time.

It definitely sounds like she is outgrowing the playgroup. It's not like she has bad intentions if she wants to hug the children, perhaps work separately on concepts like asking someone if it's OK to give them a hug before she does it. Or, again, older children/children her age are more likely to be more receptive to this kind of enthusiastic greeting.

I think it is important to get your approach solidified when they get to this stage, I kept on carrying on with the way I'd been dealing with stuff and then reaching my limit and snapping because it just didn't work but I think you need to be more proactive because this is just likely to be how it is from now on. Of course, she will grow out of the more immature behaviours in a few months or years, but I think there is a massive shift, which occurs at about 3, where you can't always do it by instinct and you need to actually look at the way you do things and come up with more of a plan. In my experience, anyway.

[kingbeat23]

I agree that this doesn't sound out of the ordinary although when DD was the same age I wondered if something was wrong. I still do sometimes as she can be bloody minded and decide not to listen to me at times.

Consistency is key, pick your battles. Remember she is still little and although the speech is there the emotional capability to understand them can often not. Time outs worked a bit, but I think it was more for my benefit than hers. Removing from a situation worked sometimes, I had to carpet roll her out of places sometimes and once out of the situation get down to her level and explain why we had to leave. Online big shop supermarkets were baskets only, she got jobs to do to keep her occupied. Find me a red pepper etc.

Choices were a good one. It gave her a sense of control over her life. Are you going to get in the buggy by yourself or shall I get you in? No buggy. That's not an option, by yourself or mummy? So still getting her to do the things you want but she gets to choose how. Time limits on this though. If you don't choose by 5 then it will just be mummy puts you in.

DD is still the kind of child that needs to go out every day, get some fresh air, run around otherwise she bounces off the walls.

[insearchoftheFlumFlumTree]

You've described my 5 year old at age 2-3. Particularly the behaviour at playgroups, except that he used to go wild, and charge around pushing the other children over for fun.

He's an absolutely normal 5 year old. No concentration issues at school. No longer hyperactive. I think he calmed down somewhere between 3.5 and 4.

It is really wearing, but stick in there and be consistent. At his worst point, when we went out in public I used to give DS a sticker for every 5 minutes that he managed to behave for - this worked quite well, although needed a big investment from me!

[Flangeofmingetown]

Possibly autistic? Sounds very much like the behaviour I experienced with my daughter at the same age who was then diagnosed at five. She was my first and I just thought I was a useless mother. I now know differently -I was doing everything correctly for a neurotypical child but my eldest has special needs.

Playgroup was a nightmare in the way you explain, ditto shopping. She would just get overwhelmed and then it would be a meltdown. I would dread going out but felt that repeatedly doing the same things would help her (it was like groundhog day). She had a great memory but her speech was limited to parroting phrases.

Worth investigating this via your health visitor and asking that your child has a full multi disciplinary assessment.

[TSSDNCOP]

Never take a child shopping unless there is no online option available. God bless the inventors of the Internet.

Spot flash points she can't handle: the singing session is the time you pack up and leave.

With the hugging thing, this starts to iron out when they start formal nursery and learn more about social boundaries.

Pick a nursery that has loads and loads of indoor and outdoor space and is hot on organisation and discipline. Her exuberance will be distilled by the space and she'll get a jump start on school behaviours early.

Start imposing sanctions: stop doing that on 3 or we will leave/turn off the TV/stop laying whatever and absolutely follow through.

[FrontLoader]

My DS was very similar between. 2.5 and 3.5 - now at 5 he is much calmer, has more staying power in busy social situations and behaves ok (bar a bit of whinging) at the shops. He was just a really easily over- stimulated and objectionable preschooler.

YY to online shopping and to leaving playgroups etc before the meltdown stage - prevention is better than cure whilst this phase passes. And try to get a break for yourself on a regular basis.

I found the Incredible Years book by Carolyn Webster-Stratton very useful too.

[spots]

My DD has been similarly challenging and has now just turned 4. I think only now we are starting to get to know her stormy side better and cushion ourselves against the worst of it. Some children seem to have a low spark point - my dd certainly does - it is very very time-consuming and takes a great deal of imagination to deal with. Being the sole carer is exhausting and you have my sympathy.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

I think your DD sounds completely normal. Unfortunately at this age many activities just become impossible and you are inviting conflict by persisting with them. My DD had some similarities so I just resigned myself to never going shopping or to a cafe again. She was much better by 4 and pretty perfect by 5.

[jimijack]

Normal normal normal!
You could be talking about my ds in your op.

It was so bad that I stopped going out anywhere with him for about 6 months. I just couldn't cope with it.
Nothing I did made any difference.

Just to reassure you, he turned out to be awesome. Curious, full of spirit and beans. Action packed and a sociable chap.

The mn mantra gets me through...this too shall pass. Honestly, she will be fine.

[notso]

You could be describing my 3 year old DS2.

I have found if I want him to do something I say
"DS come and get your shoes on"
He usually ignores so I say
"Are you going to walk over to get them on or run really fast?"
He cannot resist the opportunity to run really fast and comes.

When he wants to walk for example in the supermarket, I say walk to the milk and stop, walk to the crisps and stop etc. I shop with his buggy and he goes in it screaming and kicking if he runs off.

He has just started pre school nursery and his behaviour has improved a lot. He needs constant activities that I just can't give him all the time at home as have 3 other DC.