I am so fed up with DD

[WahIzzit]

I am so so fed up with DD (just turned 4).and yesterday I felt annoyed with her to the point I wanted to shout my arse off at her. I need some perspective because atm I feel at a loss what I should be doing.

We spent the day at ILs and SIL also went with her DC. DD plays with her DCousin who she adores (he is a few years older) but they can end up fighting or DD ends up in tears. They are both to blame really, DD wants her own way all the time. She can be so stubborn and kicks off. I just cannot reason with her when she is being like this, it feels like we are back at the terrible two's stage. She cannot tolerate anybody else having something she likes. He is no better, constantly goading DD and winding her up.

Yesterday there was a toy which he was holding and she really wanted it. He wasn't playing with it so SIL asked him to give it to DD. But he deliberately threw it behind the telly so she couldn't have it. Cue tears and DD trying to hit him.
They kept doing this to each other, had to break a few fights but I tried my best to keep my cool. DMIL has a kids table with chairs for the DC to have their tea when visiting but unfortunately we were dealing with 4 kids, 3 chairs as 1 broke. The other kids are older and quick to go grab a seat cue DD again in floods of tears and hitting and pulling DCousins off to sit down. I explained to her they are taken and to come sit with me at the big table (have to help her to eat anyway, fussy eater). But nope she wasn't having any of it. He ended up punching her which made DD hysterical which set DC2 off. I just wanted to scream at the little feckers at this stage. I ended up taking DD into the other room to calm her down but she continued sobbing and lashing out at me. Eventually had to bribe her (which I try not to do too much) and thats the only way she listened to me. She then instantly wanted to be his friend again but he wasn't having any of it, and telling her to go away.

Thankfully they got on a bit better after dinner and then it was time to go home. But as soon as we got out and into the car, I burst into tears. I dont know why. A combination of stress and humiliation and disappointment in DD. I dont do emotions very well and I know neither does she but I cannot cope with this on a regular basis. Have decided to give going to ILs a break for a few weeks, and perhaps cutting out her DCousin for a bit longer and then we will see. how can I handle DD's behaviour? She acts like a spoilt brat when she really isn't. We dont indulge her with things nor is she deprived. Yet if she sees something she likes she goes green and HAS to have it. We dont let her all the time obviously and have tried being firm yet calm. But there's no reasoning with her.
Sorry its long and thanks if you got this far but I kinda needed to get it off my chest. Any advice or tips greatly appreciated.

[stillenacht]

Some perspective. Yesterday my DS1 (14) was playing with a friends DS2(3). When it was time to leave (they were at ours) her DS2 was in floods of tears saying he didn't want to leave that he was having fun.

Why was this so accute? Well my DS2 and the little boy's DS1 both have severe autism. My DS1 and this little boy don't have brothers they can 'play with'. The little boy was desperate (as my DS1 has been in the past) for a brotherly figure to play with.

In 10 years I have only seen DS2 play with DS1 twice. It made me cry seeing this little boy desperate for a playmate as I remembered DS1 at 6/7/8/9 desperately wanting his brother to play with him.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Buy you mil a new children's chair for the table and next time only stay for a couple of hours. Mine are harder to handle if they are tired, much easier to have a change of scene and do something else.

[RandomMess]

Sounds you had a long day all stuck in a ILs house - not a good combination tbh! Shorter visit next time.

[WahIzzit]

Thanks for your reply still I feel in awe of many people I know who are parents of difficult children or those with SEN, at how strong and patient they are - I lack both these qualities. Your boys sound lovely as do your friends dc and I hope it gets easier for them.

I am lucky DD is healthy etc. I really do feel grateful both my DC have no illnesses, diseases, disabilities etc etc but at times it makes it a little harder to be tolerant of bad behaviour iyswim because I feel she has no excuse for it. I need to keep reminding myself she is only 4 but its so hard :(

Just a little more insight into DD's behaviour/personality. She is a very shy, quiet child in nursery and selectively mute (undiagnosed) with teachers but speaks to her friends. She also is quiet with all grown ups other than DH and I but when her Dcousins are at my ILs for eg., she will play happily but also play up if she does not get her way. Nursery however have no complaints and is a like a little angel there. She does cry there too though occasionally if she feels 'wronged' and will defend herself by hitting back rather than telling a teacher (as she will not talk to them). This is rare occurrence now but did this alot last year. She has many quirks, is very obsessive about certain things. They HAVE to be a certain way and we are very anal with her routine for this reason. It can be hard work as we are constantly on pins thinking what if something unexpected happens n starts her off etc. Her little brother OTOH is a breeze in comparison!

[YDdraigGoch]

I think they're just being normal kids tbh. They may well have been tired or crotchety for some other reason.
When kids are arguing like that it's always best to either just call it a day, or get our and about and do something - park/walk/soft play...

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

If she chooses not to talk, gets angry easily when she feels wronged or things aren't how she likes them, I'd talk to your HV and ask her to assess your dd. She may need a little additional support.

See if your library has a copy of this book but anything by dr Tanya Byron is good

[WahIzzit]

Thanks jilted and john took a while replying so missed your posts.

When I say 'spent the day' tbh looking back DD was not stuck indoors for long. In and out to the ILs neighbours, then to the nearby shops with MIL. Dh took the DC out for a bit too before he left to go somewhere.. I would say from 5pm onwards we were 'in' the house. She may have gotten a little tired but no more than usual. She has played up in the past too when we visited for a relatively short time. Yes DMIL will be getting a new one but hasn't got round to it yet as shop that sells matching one said it is out of stock or something.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Xposted with you draig. Agree. If we have a day at the ILs with their cousins we arrive a little before lunch and always break up the afternoon with a walk or trip to the park or both. If its too rest we get out board games, drawing or a craft activity.

OP you just might be expecting a bit too much.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

If the shop that sells matching ones has run out, could you not supply her with a cheap one to tide her over?

5pm is late, she's still very little. My dn is 4 and after tea all he is really capable of is 20 minutes in the garden then we get out DS to read to him and he's falling asleep.

[WahIzzit]

at jilted and john gosh I really am out if sorts today I meant random of course! Argh.

Yes YD I did want to just head home but DH had gone to see a friend and had taken the car, I didnt want to spoil his evening as he rarely goes out. He picked up 7.30ish and was very concerned at me weeping in the car

Jilted yes I have been wanting to see the HV for a while. Will give her a ring next week.

[WahIzzit]

You're right. Perhaps I m expecting too much But she is the same if we go early afternoon for example. I think some tiredness may have heightened the emotional outbursts but it is always the same sort of behaviour and falling out whatever time/length of time we visit. I think because the other DC (on my side of family as well as on DHs, and friends' DC) dont seem to behave this way, apart from DH nephew mentioned in OP.

[Primrose123]

This may not be relevant to you, but when my elder DD was about 3 or 4 she behaved appallingly when we were with my inlaws. I was quite strict, but they would give her everything, and if they ever said 'no' she would cry and they would give in immediately. She didn't do that with me, if I said 'no' she would accept it, but she learnt that she could manipulate them very easily. Could this be happening in your case?

Also, if she is an only child and used to being on her own, it can be strange for her to be around her cousins all day, especially if she is the youngest. I don't mean that she is spoilt, more that it is all a bit much for her, she is only 4 after all. I was an only child, and though I loved playing with other children, after a while I got a bit overwhelmed, and needed to chill out on my own. I still like time to myself even now!

[BrawToken]

Stillenacht, you just made me cry! I think those boys need to spend some more time together :)

[Bumpsadaisie]

OP what immediately struck me was that if I had been the parent of the older children at your MILs and seen that the youngest of the group (your DD) was upset that she didn't have a chair, I would have made my elder one give up his/her chair. It sounds like your DD had a day of trying to keep her end up with older kids. Not easy esp if no-one is making sure the older kids play fair!

[Bumpsadaisie]

PS your DD' s cousin is a few years older and "punched" her - so he is 7/8 or so and is hitting a four year old? It doesn't sound like your DD is the main problem here!

[AquaCouldron]

If she's selectively mute at school she's probably naturally quite an anxious soul, bless her. Anxiety can manifest itself as being quite rigid and needing control, routine, etc in order to feel 'safe'. Anxiety can also be very tiring so can also lead to tired 'bad behaviour' even when the circumstances don't seem to warrant it.

It does sound like the bigger children need to be more considerate of her (or need to have it enforced by their parent(s) ).

Not sure what to suggest other than trying to work out and avoid what it is that gets her upset, and keeping visits shorter. If the mutism persists at nursery / school then make sure you ask them what they are doing to help her with this, and don't be fobbed off with 'oh she'll grow out of it' if they aren't doing anything specific.

[stillenacht]

Aww Brawtoken xx i have spent many an hour crying over the lost sibling relationship between my boys but we have just got back from a fireworks display which we all watched togwther, as a family.2 years ago this would not have been possible and I felt so much joy just watching the fireworks altogether I can't tell you

[breatheslowly]

I think that your DD's behaviour isn't terrible given the circumstances, though hitting isn't acceptable. Older children should know not to wind up younger ones and should be reminded to give up the place at the table. I'd expect your DN to have been firmly told off for throwing the toy behind the TV and then retrieve the toy for her.

In bigger groups your DD needs to know that she will get told off for poor behaviour but also that you will stick up for her when other don't behave well. Do you think she has heard the whole message?

[BerstieSpotts]

Honestly I think some children just really struggle with age 4. DS has just turned 5 and we've had a horrendous year. Starting to see him come back now which is wonderful.

Have to take DS to bed now (we are in a different time zone) but I will hopefully be back later with some more constructive advice.

[BerstieSpotts]

The biggest thing which has helped with getting DS to stop and consider his reaction rather than reacting (and then blowing up when someone reacts back) is to say "Stop. Let's start again." It had got to the point where I would on occasion just ignore his behaviour because to fight against it ended up escalating to such a ridiculous level.

[WahIzzit]

Thank you for all the responses, will try and reply to some before DC2 wakes up again darn teething

Primrose you may have hit the nail on the head there. DMIL & FIL do spoil all their Dgc a little with junk food, getting there own way, hogging the telly etc. Its hard to intervene as they are so lovely and seemed so hurt when I have objected in the past. I am putting my foot down re junk food though.

When DD was younger, from 1.5 to nearing 3 years, she was the youngest GC and did get her way a lot, even with her Dcousins as they treated her like 'the baby'. Since then many more babies in the mix, my own dc2 included, and she is suddenly having to act more grown up - the older sister and cousin, but she still feels like the baby who loved getting her own way.

Also agree about her feeling overwhelmed. She was an only child until last year, and although adores her baby brother, she goes crazy if he (or anyone) messes with her things. She has a quiet room upstairs with all her bits and enjoys playing alone or with one of us.

Bumps I agree I would like to think I would do the same. To be fair SIL did ask one of them to get up, and the eldest did. But DD did not like that chair claiming it was dirty so eldest dn (who is lovely I have to say) sat back down. But the dnephew refused to get up and laughed in DD's face which frustrated her more. She does feel quite left out at times and I know gets picked on a bit while playing in the garden with them but she defends herself well. I tell her not to hit back and to tell me but she doesnt always.

Aqua You made some intetesting points. Yes she is a very anxious child, poor lamb. She developed various ticks after DC2 came along and after starting nursery, but thankfully is ok now. She worries if I am having a down day, and instantly knows it despite me trying hard to mask it. She is very rigid about many things, and finds changes very hard to deal with. Even small changes like changing furniture around. I am hoping to have a quiet word with her keyworkers about her mutism, but they are so pleased with how she is I'm pretty sure they will dismiss my concerns. Will see what hsppens.

[WahIzzit]

Breatheslowly yes SIL made him get the toy out and give it to DD, but she didn't see him throwing it so never commented on that. DMIL/FIL try not to get involved and leave the disciplining to the parents unless its something very serious.

I do need to get her to understand that message.. she knows she will be told off if she is acting up, and I try hard to defend her too if she is wronged so to speak. But if I am not there she will hit and ut escalates, and both parties end up being told off. I try and be more vigilant now though since realising she gets provoked a lot. Eg dnephew in OP once kept ripping off her hat from her head. I saw him and went out, telling him off very firmly which she was pleased with.

Berstie hope you are right and she snaps out of it by 5. Then I have to go through it all over again with dc2. (Faints)