Help with logical consequences for a 5 year old

[vvviola]

DD1 (5.10) is a pretty good kid really, chatty, funny, eager to please. BUT we have having problems with a couple of specific areas and I'm struggling with finding logical consequences for them.

Firstly - she's a very active physical child but sometimes this spills over into just plain daft behaviour - rolling about on the floor, shouting nonsense, jumping around the (v small) playroom and either hurting herself or her little sister. It's a sort of behaviour that really winds me up - so finding a logical consequence as soon as it starts would help avoid my buttons being pressed quite so much!

Secondly - she comes with me to collect her sister from creche 3 days a week. When she gets there she loses the run of herself - climbing on the baby toys, running about, not stopping when she has been told 20 times It's irritating, badly behaved and there's the risk of her hurting one of the little ones. Anywhere else I'd leave the first time she didn't listen, but I often have to talk to the crèche workers, get information about DD2's day etc. so I get more wound up, her behaviour gets worse & by the time we leave I'm really annoyed.

Any suggestions gratefully received - I'm spending a lot more time cross and irritated than I would like, and she such a lovely bright kid that she would be a pleasure to be around if only we could sort this out (she still is a pleasure outside of these times )

[NeverBeenToMe]

Could you have a reward for being well behaved during crèche pick up- and the logical consequence be the withdrawal of the reward?

Or alert crèche workers that if dd1 starts playing up you will be leaving immediately - could they do you a written note of anything they need to tell you just for a week or two while you tackle this?

Take some crayons etc or a book to keep dd1 occupied?

Are you clearly explaining what behaviour you expect?

Good luck x

[vvviola]

Yes, we discuss it every single time before we get out of the car. She understands and says she can do it, then just seems to go a bit nuts once we get in there.

I had thought of sticker for each day she behaves, & if she gets sticker each day then her Dad will get her something at the market on Sunday (DH is a total softy and usually gets her something small most weeks - e.g. Pencils, small doll), but she gets so worked up about such systems that it drives me crazy - we would have a discussion about the stickers, whether she got a sticker, whether she would get a sticker next time, how many stickers she needed... At least 4 times a day. I abandoned a sticker reward system after 2 weeks once because I was drained by the constant discussion of it (she's a total extrovert who loves stream-of-consciousness chatter. I'm a classic introvert who just needs silence sometime). Which is why I was thinking maybe a relatively direct consequence might be a little less draining.

[Cravingdairy]

I think you should work on behaviour that is wrong or harmful (hurting sister) and let stuff go if it's just annoying but innocuous (rolling on the floor.)

[vvviola]

The problem CravingDairy is that the hurting her sister is a direct result of rolling about on the floor and/or not listening to what she has been told the first few times etc. None of it is intentional - just a result of the daft behaviour.

[Andro]

Daft behaviour in the playroom - the logical consequence is removal from the playroom for a period of time (20 minutes at the first signs of her behavoiur going too daft maybe?).

Daft behaviour at creche - do you have a wrist strap or something similar to stop a child running away? If she can't behave appropriately, she has to wear the wrist strap (for example) so that she stands next to you for the duration.

[50shadesofvomit]

I used to threaten my kids with reins if they ran off and for a school aged child there's nothing more humiliating than wearing baby reins so it worked well.

[Branleuse]

I think lots of distraction in the immediate when youre there or reins, and then positive reinforcement of something exciting as a consequence, like a lolly for her effort.

[Seeline]

How about 'time out' to help her calm down?
If she starts being silly she has to spend a certain amount of time sat on a chair,rug, stair etc until she seems calmer. If she isn't straight back until she can behave. You can use that out and about too - but needs to be removed instantly bad behaviou starts.

[NeverendingStoryteller]

How about holding hands as a natural consequence when you visit the creche? Explain to her that if she can't manage her behaviour at the creche, she'll need to come and stand with you and hold your hand until she's ready to try again? If she won't come when you call, it's totally OK to walk over and take her hand and lead her away to stand with you until she's ready.

[Branleuse]

how about a simple social story and then practice the behaviour

[vvviola]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm having a good think about them all. I'm not sure the reins are a real option - we've just started using them with DD2 & I'm not sure the threat of using them on DD1 would be fair. But holding hands may work, and perhaps a system of time out too.

Would people really go with 20 minutes out of the playroom? (Which incidentally isn't really a separate room - it's what would usually be the diner part of the kitchen-diner.

Thanks again everyone. Plenty of food for thought

[piggybank]

No suggestions for the playroom, sorry. For creche you could tell your daughter that the staff have complained about her behaviour (embarrass her into behaving well) or that they have set new rules to prevent running about to avoid hurting younger children. I am sure creche staff would support you and even have a word for you to explain why you don't run about.

It's not natural consequences but I think this would work. It probably does irritate the creche staff so it's not exactly lying to your dd either.

I wish I had a suggestion for behaviour at home. My 3.5 yo ds has been very daft at home the last three months and it really winds me up.

[Lavenderlane]

I have a 5 year old DD too and feel like a broken record most days. She sounds similar to your daughter in that she can be boisterous (which means if she doesn't hurt herself it's somebody else) and likes to perform if she thinks she is going to make somebody laugh or they'll show her attention. At times I feel she does not realise the importance of what I am saying about her behaviour. When she is acting silly it almost always ends up with her getting into trouble in some way because she gets too excited. She seems to respond better to role playing or talking it through (how would mummy feel if she couldn't find you whilst she was talking to the nursery staff) rather than being told off or time out. Although I am not saying I don't find myself having the same discussion a week or so later, sooo frustrating!

How does she get on at school and with her friends?

[mawbroon]

Have you asked her why she does this, and how she feels?

If she says she doesn't know, you could maybe guess and see what she says.

I would hazard a guess that she might be jealous of the attention that her sister gets when she gets collected and I would try something like giving her one on one time before picking up her sister, if that's possible of course.

Same for the playroom behaviour. Look at why she might be doing it. Bored? Wanting attention?

I have had some very interesting conversations with my DSs about the feelings surrounding their behaviour and sometimes I find that just having their feelings acknowledged stops the unwanted behaviour.

[Dulra]

You have just described my dd1 who is the exact same age and just like you say it is just silly behaviour I put it down to having far too much energy that she needs to get rid of after school. Her worst times are just out of the bath where she just goes nuts hyper messing about and also when we collect her other 2 sisters in creche. For me I don't let her in the baby room if she is messing about far too dangerous but the creche has an outside play area where I make her wait which is possible. If she is being too boisterous at home around her two sisters I just send her out to the garden or up to her room to get rid of her energy. She is well used to it now so often tells me she needs to get rid of her silliness lol. I do though feel like a constant broken record and find myself asking her to do things about 50 times which I find so irritating so I just start counting and she knows if I get to 10 before she responds to my request there will be consequences such as no play date that week or something similar.

[vvviola]

LavenderLane & Dulra - it's reassuring to hear someone else going through it. Some of it probably is too much energy and a bit of boredom at times. But it's at times when I can't do anything about it (crèche pick up/when I'm trying to get dinner cooked etc).

She seems to get on fine with friends at school - there's the usual "X didn't want to play with me" stuff and a few strong personalities all wanting to decide on the rules, but they generally seem to sort it out between them and she seems to have plenty of friends.

I've rearranged things a little so she only has to come to pick up twice a week instead of 3 times - gives me one day when I can talk to creche staff uninterrupted.

[Lavenderlane]

The effort you are putting in to support your DD with this is to be admired and I know how exhausting that can be. Simple tasks end up becoming mentally draining.

If school and her friendships are okay, she is obviously not too boisterous that it is impacting on her education or developing relationships. Sounds like she knows her own mind and likes a bit of attention, even if this is at inconvenient times.

Just wondering whether you could have the conversation with her about your third paragraph "I've rearranged things a little so she only has to come to pick up twice a week instead of 3 times". Could you reflect on her behaviour at crèche pick up times and if she doesn't give an explanation, add that it tells you she doesn't really like that time so "mummy has done her best" and she only has to come twice a week. This gives her the message you have done it for her, but also you the opportunity to say that because of what you have done for her you really need her to 'behave' when she goes on the other two days. I have put behave but think you need to outline clearly what she needs to do e.g. you can play until the doors open but when they open I need you to hold my hand and remember if mummy is speaking to the adults its rude to interrupt"

[claraschu]

Just wondering if she gets enough time running wild outside. Some children (people usually assume boys) need a lot of exercise. Think of puppies and young dogs and how bouncy they are. They need a lot of walks and people accept this. Children are the same, I think.