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4 year old and anger, just wanted another view - what are yours like?

(19 Posts)
greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 12:32:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 15:18:42

What's her socialisation like? Does she get on with or play with other children? Can she follow instructions? How is her eye contact and speech?

I have 2 is 4. She has tantrums when she can't get her own way....she will yell and lie on the floor now and then...she has good social skills though and good language.

HerRoyalNotness Sat 27-Oct-12 15:26:34

I was just about to start a post about DS1 (5yo) and managing anger. He is quite a contrary boy, as if he can't decide what he wants to do between 2 things, or doing something or not. He had the MOST massive meltdown at piano yesterday. He didn't want to do the lesson, so we said, okay, let's finish and go home. They he'd say no I want to do it, then no I don't ad infinitum. We called his bluff and packed up.

He totally lost it! jumping up and down, screaming, crying, hitting me(!). He screamed all the way home and hit me several times. I put him in his room to calm down, after 15mins, he was good as gold.

Apparently he takes after DH, who didn't learn how to manage his anger, and is now generally someone who supresses it, then snaps occasionally, saying something vile etc... I'd prefer to get DS some help so he doesn't end up this way!

Maybe someone will come along with recommendations, would like a book or something to explain how to give him managing strategies, before going the child therapist route. He also lashes out at school, hitting, poking, prodding. I think it's stress and anxiety that causes that, he is getting better, but still has a note from the teacher weekly about it.

I feel your pain!

MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 15:33:27

this book has very good reviews.

I don't know seem to be having a lot of trouble with DD from your past posts....but no diagnoses which must be hard.

Can you consider seeing someone privately?

lljkk Sat 27-Oct-12 17:00:05

My current 4yo is quite placid. He is the weird one (not that I am complaining).

I love The Explosive Child for DS2 (now 8yo).

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 20:53:51

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MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 21:28:00

I hope you aren't offended by what I am about to say....because in all fairness I don't know you or your DD but it does seem rather as though you are obsessing over the possibility that she has some special needs.

She can clearly recognise emotions, she can clearly speak well and socialise and seems to be having some normal tantrums for her age.

You've been told by professionals that she is fine and yet you persist in pushing for some diagnosis.

MOST 4 year old girls have regular tantrums. Not all...but most...most get grumpy when they hurt themselves and don't want to be fussed over....especially if they feel like they are under a microscope.

I honestly think you need to step back, try to enjoy your child more without looking for signs of something wrong.

You say in your OP that she has responded well to you ignoring the tantrums...what more are you after?

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 21:39:18

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MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 21:43:45

Well I have a 4 year old too and also an 8 year old and tbh both of them have had plenty of nighttime episodes similar to that which you describe above.

DD2 aged 4 and a half just leaped all over her bedroom half an hour ago because I took her for a wee and she wouldn't get back in bed...yelling "I want a film! I want to go down! I want you! I dont want you! and hitting out.

She was half asleep and it's not abnormal.

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 22:06:27

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MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 22:08:25

I'm not defensive. confused I just listed a similar behaviour. I did suggest that you seem to be over involved in your child with regards to her needs. BUt as I said...I'm not an expert. It's just what comes over.

I do have experience with autism and your child does not sound (to me) as though she is Autistic in the slightest.

ceebeegeebies Sat 27-Oct-12 22:13:47

Greener I read your original post and thought that it sounds exactly like my DS2 who is nearly 4 but it has never occurred to me that he has special needs shock

It is just normal 4-year old behaviour - DS2 can become really angry when he doesn't get something he wants or perceives he is being treated unfairly - he shouts, screams (doesn't hit fortunately) and will literally come right up to my face and shout in it. He is also very animated when he is in a good mood and quite often me and Dh joke that it is like having 2 different children in the house as he swings between the 2 so often and so dramatically!

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 22:18:40

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MrsCantSayAnything Sat 27-Oct-12 22:21:35

So you're just going to ignore anyone who says things you don't like? Cross them off the list? Odd. But whatever. Ceebeegeebies thinks the same as beg to differ. I'll leave the thread.

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 22:22:52

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ceebeegeebies Sat 27-Oct-12 22:30:02

Greener with DS2, it can happen 4 or 5 times a day tbh - obviously it depends on what is going on (and how much DS1 is around wink) and it does get worse in the evenings when he is clearly tired. His tantrums can last up to 15 minutes if they are really bad but he does switch out of them quickly if DS1 starts trying to making him laugh.

Nursery have never mentioned any issues to us at all so I think he does save them all for home.

He is totally the same with regards routine and how something was done before - he comments all the time if you change something (for example yesterday I gave him some chocolate milk in a mug and today I gave it to him in a different kind of cup and he asked me why it was in that cup) - he notices even the smallest changes. But he doesn't necessarily get angry about these kind of changes - however, I could imagine he would get angry if I had taken him to the park one day and then not another day as in the scenario you had described but I think that would be because the park was particularly important to him iyswim.

greener2 Sat 27-Oct-12 22:39:02

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PopMusicShoobyDoobyDoA Sun 28-Oct-12 11:24:52

greener my child was under "care" of CDC team inc paediatrician. I found the whole experience unhelpful and incredibly depressing because I felt that they didn't really know my DS and they were not listening to us. Anyway, that's a whole other story.

Back to what typical 4 year olds are like. Well, my DS thrives on routine and hates changes. He likes to sit in the same place, eat from the same plate, cup etc. He does certain things in a particular order. He used to have fits if we changed any part of the routine but now if I explain things why, he will do them, albeit reluctantly. If he does something once, he thinks he always has to do them. I remember when he was younger we came out of the house a bit early so we went for a walk to the end of the street. Yup, you guessed it, for months afterwards we walked to the end of the street and back before we got in the car and then it just gradually eased off. So his little obsessions change over time, until he picks up a new one! He used to repeat the same sentence over and overHe is good at taking turns, beginning to be sociable, very sensitive, bright, wants things to happen straight away and lazy.

Now, as for temper. Huge temper tantrums. His emotions just run away with him and once he starts he can't control it. It's awful to see actually. What seems to be working for the moment is that when he is like this, I hold him and just talk to him about what he is feeling and why. It still takes him ages to calm down but his tantrum is less severe. He, and other children of his age, find it very hard to express their "negative" (although I don't think they are negative iykwim) emotions like frustration, anger, hurt. I am in the process of researching to see how I can help him express his emotions so that meltdowns occur less frequently. There are certain things that trigger it (like most people, inc. adults) like when he is feeling tired, hungry or coming down with something. I think in school they are very good at spotting things before it gets all too much for him and intervene. At the moment, he has a thing of not wanting to share. Mmm, not sure how this is going to pan out - I see lots of conflict.

And btw, I don't see your concern as being over involved. It's anxiety about the lack of diagnosis, about your daughters behaviour itself and the overwhelming feeling of powerlessness that you have to help her. Perfectly understandable.

cory Tue 30-Oct-12 08:24:39

I think it is often very difficult to diagnose whether a child is on the spectrum or not at this age.

Often it is probably a case of scale and frequency, e.g. many NT 4yo's get upset about changes of routine, but a child on the spectrum might find changes more difficult to handle/might react at a far smaller change of routine/different types of triggers. Many NT 4yos have violent meltdowns but in a child on the spectrum they might be more frequent/triggered by partly different things. And with a child on the spectrum there might be other signs relating to socialisation, repetitive behaviour or whatever.

Dd had quite violent meltdowns and had to be restrained so as not to injure other people. She did not have autistic tendencies, but that doesn't mean that another child with the same tantrums might not have. It's just not the kind of thing that can be diagnosed over the internet imho.

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