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Please help me with DS (5) - naughty, aggressive and starting to wet himself :(

(14 Posts)
BoisJacques Fri 09-Sep-11 10:54:50

DS has always been abit of a challenge, but there was usually alot of good to balance the 'bad'. He can be a complete angel, but that is getting less and less. When he gets into the 'mood' it's a real nightmare. He will spit out his dinner, scratch his fork on the table, randomly shout and scream, make a cross face and just go "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" really loudly - he has started a new school (the very last week of last term) and I was pulled to one side about his behaviour. It was then summer, and I worked hard but I feel like I am becoming a bully sad THe only thing that will work, or somewhat work is warnings then being sent to bed. He has started to wet himself again now too - we have 'poo issues' (pls don't out me) but weeing was fine, but all summer he thought it was great to wee on the patio, in his 'Woody' hat, climbed into DS3s cot the other day and wee'd in it... He just cannot be quiet (well, rarely) and I do not know why. It is becoming such a problem, he has been banned from playing with his best friend because he was just leading him astray. He says he cannot help shouting out in class hmm He will run up to his friends and just go "rrrrrrrrrrrrahhhhhhhh" in their faces etc. I have tried rewards, calm conversations, shouting - everything. It's just escalating though and he regularly hits me when I am putting him to bed etc. and then just gets so upset. He 'mothers' his toy animals alot too - there must be something beyond just naughtyness but I just don't know what to do sad

socialhandgrenade Fri 09-Sep-11 11:05:15

Sorry, can't help but am hoping someone else will come along who can as my DS (who is a bit younger) does similar. Especially the going up to people, usually smaller toddlers and "grrrrr - ing" <sigh>. and the inability to say anything without SHOUTING.

You have my sympathies. I think this will be me in a year or two sad

BoisJacques Fri 09-Sep-11 11:17:01

There was a 'mums with boys' thread floating about a while ago - I remember it was kind of common (ish). I cannot work out whether DS is too tired or under stimulated. It's like he can only be quiet when he is putting all his energy into something i.e if he is putting all his energy into being good, he can be great but it's still energetic - like madly helping me clean.

socialhandgrenade Fri 09-Sep-11 11:49:50

I think in my DS's case (and maybe yours too) that he is very emotional and just doesn't know how to reign it in yet/express it properly. So when my DS sees someone he thinks he might like to play with he throws his arms around them and hugs them tightly...and then doesnt let go sad I have had to wrestle him off many perplexed tots sometimes with very cross (understandably) protective parents. I am trying to get him to learn more appropriate strategies to make friends, but jeez. He got punched in the stomach by an older boy at the weekend who took a dislike to his exuberance sad Hasn't deterred him though. I guess I should be pleased he's so resilient to rejection but it's heartbreaking.

Is your DS able to talk about his feelings like, say about going to bed? So saying he feels cross that it's bedtime instead of hitting?

I guess they just haven't learned inhibition yet maybe?

thisisyesterday Fri 09-Sep-11 11:53:02

what do school think about his behaviour?
have you spoken to GP or health visitor or anyone?

BoisJacques Fri 09-Sep-11 19:19:32

School don't really know what to do. The term really kicks in next week with reward charts etc. so they are hoping that will help. This eve was going well until I walked in on him and his brother taking a bath, and he had smeared poo all over him (DS2 (3)) - all over his head and face. I think I may have to get CAMH involved, and I really didn't want that sad

MardyArsedMidlander Fri 09-Sep-11 19:21:41

With the random spitting, growling and not being able to help himself shouting- I wonder if you should talk to the GP about possible Tourettes?

thisisyesterday Fri 09-Sep-11 20:35:59

I would see the GP, or ask the school for a referral to your local community paediatric team.
It varies a lot from place to place, but here they are very reluctant to refer to CAHMS as the criteria for referral is really strict and with young children it's sometimes hard to meet.
But the community paediatricians do an assessment and can then refer onto CAHMS if necessary.

In my case with ds1 we were querying Asperger's (he has/had similar issues as you describe with your son, minus the poo!). They would not refer to CAHMS as it's not a mental health problem...

that said, ask your GP. They ought to know the best place to refer onto. And if they turn round and say "actually, he's JUST being a boy and he'll grow out of it and here are some techniques you can use to help" then that's great. The other outcome is that there is some kind of underlying issue, in which case you're on the road to (hopefully) a diagnosis and being able to deal with it all a bit better.

It's hard taking that first step, so many people will try and make you feel better by saying "ohh all kids do that to some extent"... but you know your son, and if you feel that there is more to his behaviour than just general being a small boy then do take it further.
They do tend to prefer it if the school can do the referral. In my case school were not willing to, so the GP did it for us

Maybe come and post on the SN board if you want more thoughts on his behaviour and info on what might happen next?

plumtart Sat 10-Sep-11 10:25:18

Could this be plain old fashioned attention seeking in a very effective (from his pov!!!) way? Possibly coupled with some boredom and frustration?

I really would explore this route thoroughly before involving gp/hv or camhs as interventions dont always go how the parent hoped or expected.

Can you sit down and rethink your timetable to give him as much one on one time as you can for say 6 weeks? Also notice the independent things he does and tell him what a big boys he is, how much he's grown, how proud you are etc as much as possible.

Also, just to throw everything at the problem, find some more physical activities for him which use gross motor skills that he can do regularly - swimming, football, climbing etc.

Make sure he is getting to bed early enough and cut back on the simple carbohydrates if you can (eg bread, pasta, potatoes, fruit juice, sweets etc) - increase slow release carbs and proteins of all types.

BoisJacques Sat 10-Sep-11 10:33:12

I did wonder about attention seeking - I asked him and it is the only thing he said yes to, but I tried to explore further (not sure he understands the question 'are you doing it for attention' fully). He says he likes being told off? All I can work out is ; he is naughty, I tell him off, put him to bed, he cries, I come back after 5 odd mins and we have a chat, he promises to be good (then usually be naughty again!) He says then he gets to come downstairs, but, he would get to come downstairs if he was good in the first place! Should I give him more 1 on 1 attention? It is hard because I feel so sorry for the other DSs, but, maybe I should do things seperatly for them all from time to time? sad DH works so so much (19 12 hour days in a row for eg), maybe I just leave him too much

fanjobiscuit Sat 10-Sep-11 10:52:48

Is he the eldest or middle child?

I wonder if he is craving lots of praise for just being him? If he is relatively okay most of the time but then has an outburst perhaps he considers ( unconsciously of course) that since he has been 'ignored' so far he might as well SHOUT and throw things /wet/smear poo on his brother as no-one paid him any attention before when he was being good.

I would try to verbalise every little thing he does that is within normal expectations for his age . Maybe he missed out on a lot of that for some reason? So he gets himself up at a reasonable time - "how lovely to see such a grown up boy " nothing too dramatic , just noticing that he has tried .

I too would be loathe to label him just yet. He is only 5 and seems to have had a lot of change recently. Give him some time and combined effort with school first

BoisJacques Sat 10-Sep-11 11:02:54

I do constantly tell him how good he is, but I don't actually play with him etc much. When I do look back, I do think most interaction we have is telling off etc., though we do have nice chats a few times a day. I will work on it. he is eldest with a just 3 yo brother and a 12m o brother.

fanjobiscuit Sat 10-Sep-11 11:28:28

Does he still have some knee time with you -cuddling on the sofa while watching children's tv or reading a story just for him?
Consider what you would be doing with a 5 year old single child -can you do more of this?

I know you are really busy with your 3 lovely dcs and a hard working DH and stretching just a bit more seems a lot to ask but I do think it would pay dividends in the end. But if it doesn't do any good then you know you have done what you can and be ready to ask for further help.

plumtart Sat 10-Sep-11 15:26:06

yes yes yes!

He wont be able to understand a conversation wih you about attention seeking.

If he says he likes being told off then it is sure as anything attention seeking behaviour (wish I could follow my own good advice...!!!)

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