What do you do when the naughty step doesn't work?

[DoodleAlley]

DS is generally a really well behaved 2.5 year old but recently he's become a lot more naughty. It's generally high spirited running away but it makes things hard and can be dangerous at times. He's also started biting me a little occasionally and he's being really rude calling people mr poo/mr cow poo etc.

He thinks all of this is hilarious and won't be reasoned with. The naughty chair whilst being incredibly effective previously seems to have no effect, he'll just sit there and not care. There cones a point when u can't jeep putting him back on - if I have to go to work when I work for example.

Ive wondered about removing toys to a box but I'm loathed to drop the naughty chair completely as it did work so well.

Has anyone effectively combined other punishments with the naughty chair? Any other discipline suggestions? Positive encouragements like star charts haven't worked - in the heat if the moment he'd rather do what he finds hilarious than get a star or a sweet.

Thanks in advance

[CravingExcitement]

Have you tried saying no hitting firmly without shouting, and telling him why you don't want him to call people mr poo? eg. it's rude and it will make them feel upset? I don't really see the point in punishments generally, and at 2.5 he won't know that what he is doing is wrong/undesirable. I think it take children of that age a while to understand that you really don't want them to do things like this, they just see it as a game and like to provoke a reaction, and if you give them a big dramatic one, they will just do it more.

[JarethTheGoblinKing]

Toy time out works well for DS, a favourite toy will be taken away for a short time and he doesn't get them back until behaviour improves and I get an apology. After a while the threat of it can be enough

[DoodleAlley]

I've explained til I'm blue in the face and because he thinks it's all hilarious he ignores it.

[DoodleAlley]

It's just driving me round the bend. I love him to bits and normally hate leaving him at nursery the two days I work but I'm actually dreading it a lot less after this week which makes me really sad.

[CravingExcitement]

He's ignoring the punishment too though, at least the explanation will start to make sense to him at some point, and he will know why he shouldn't do it. Children are just not very interested in being told what to do at that age, but it you keep persevering, he will eventually realise what the set up is.

[DoodleAlley]

Yeah I do tell him why he is being punished but I kind of feel he needs an extra oompf to emphasise it's naughty. Especially the biting it really hurts and I don't want him doing it to other kids. Oh I don't know. I just know my beautiful boy had turned into a real handful what seems like overnight.

He's actually three in a couple of months and I thought we'd sailed through the 'terrible two's relatively easily!

[CravingExcitement]

My ds used to bite at that age, I told him "no biting" in a scary firm voice. i didn't punish him per se. It did take a while, but he hasn't done it for ages. i made it clear to him each time that it was not ok for him to do. It's reallt frustrating, but it does take a long time to get through to them, also when they are doing something like that, they are not thinking rationally through it, they just do it.

[DoodleAlley]

Will try reasoning with him more. I think I might take him to the dining room so he actually listens to me otherwise he just writhes the flops around and runs off and I'm not strong enough to wrestle him to stay still and listen.

Thanks for listening. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but it's had me in tears today

[LoonyRationalist]

For me the naughty step (or naughty space we have since we moved into a bungalow) is about the withdrawal of attention for a set period.

I do 60 seconds for dd2 (2.3) and 2 1/2 mins for dd1 (4.9)

I put them there & close the door, it is not about them staying there -which they generally do, but not always but more about them not getting attention as a consequence of naughty behaviour. With dd1 I do do removal of a favoured item (or treat) which works well.

[DoodleAlley]

I've been doing the old one minute per year if their age but the trouble is he happily sits there and then just cones back exactly the same. Which is fine if we're home alone as he can keep returning to the naughty step (well it's a naughty chair for us) but my problem is times when I can't do that and also just the fact it's having no positive effect on him behaviour this week despite being incredibly effective for the past year I've been using it

[DoodleAlley]

Sorry that last post was riddled with typos.

Off to get him from his nap. Fingers crossed for a better afternoon - I've not got any pino grigio for the evening to help me recover!!

[Gilberte]

Just wrote a long reply which seems to have been lost. In summary, you don't need to use naughty step- plenty of parents don't. A lot of toddlers start hitting/biting around this age. Just remove hand with "no biting" or "we don't bite" or "biting hurts". If you are holding him, put him down. If he bites someone else apologise/give attention to victim. Try to anticipate and prevent instead.

[Gilberte]

Re the toilet humour- well that's toddlers for you. Try to ignore. It's your reaction that DS finds funny. Apologise to target if you need to and give plenty of outlets for talking about poos and wees(good when getting ready for potty training) and in even in appropriate context probably still funny to DS.

Obviously you could just poker face and parrot "hello grandad" when DS says "hello poo face" and maybe role play a bit with toys and when DS uses the wrong name say that's not Teddy's name, Teddy feels sad etc.

It's a phase

[DoodleAlley]

Thanks. He's potty trained as well which may well be where the fascination with poo came from. Tbh it's the other stuff that's getting me down more. Had his best friend over today which gave us a nice break and at work thurs and Friday but going to try being more calm next week and see if it helps. Am also going to reduce what we're doing to give me space to risk a new approach

[Meglet]

With my 2.8yo the best thing I can do is ignore 'naughty' behaviour (as long as its not destructive or hurtful) and praise good behaviour. I've never managed to get either of mine to do the 'naughty step' or time out.

I am having some success with the pasta pot technique. Get a plastic tumbler (poundland) let them decorate it with stickers then put 1 or more pieces of pasta in the pot for doing as they are told / being helpful / kind. Once the cup is full they can have a treat, DD just filled her first cup and 'won' a hello kitty hairbrush. It seems to help my dc's to behave, although some of they time they refuse to do things even for pasta.

[Unlurked]

It will pass! When I've had days like this with DD I take her outside, rain or shine and let her run about for as long as possible. I'd second the role play idea (teddy hit dolly, how does dolly feel? Does teddy want dolly to feel sad? How could he make her feel better? Etc etc).

Also if you sense he's going to become aggressive, start tickling or getting him to dance or anything else before he has the chance to use the energy in an aggressive way.

I'm finding 3 much harder than 2 as well btw!

[Adair]

When you say 'work', what do you want it to do?

No quick fixes IMVHO. BUt frustrating I know (my 2.11yr old driving me crazy with continuing to hurt baby brother - impulse control)

[DoodleAlley]

I guess 'work' in terms of improve behaviour. I know he's only two going on three but he's an only child thus far and so gets plenty of attention and I have more flexibility than some of my friends can manage.

So I'd expect a little bit of obedience and a little less hitting and no biting. I know he's only little but I do think you reap what you sew and don't want to leave this unaddressed.

The biting and hitting I will think about and maybe I'll try the pasta jar for encouragement, keep with the naughty step seeing as it's worked well before and practice patience and calmness more!!!

[Adair]

I only ask because I think sometimes we get obsessed with needing to punish and forget what the actual goals are. I am going with calmness and telling what TO do and moving him away silently which does work better than shouting and making a big deal of it (though easier said than done sometimes - am only human ).

I would always go for a consequence - if you do x, y will happen. And do it. It doesn't have t be a big consequence.

I am big on understanding why (which is why ds confuses me so cos sometimes it seems to be 'because i can'!!)

Good luck - it will take time but eventually 'work'. This time next year you'll be going 'oh YEAH, remember when ds bit all the time...'

[Kiwiinkits]

When I was wee I was a biter and apparently my mum used the dog technique. She said, firmly, "no biting, only dogs bite" and "I'll have to put you outside like the dog". She then put me outside on the porch for a minute or two. She said it worked perfectly and I never bit again!

[Adair]

Oh and yes, keep it positive. Distraction first, praise and say why if you see him 'change his mind' and NOT hit or bite (this works well with ds - he visibly 'clicks')

[DoodleAlley]

Thanks for all the encouragement it's as nice to remindmyself I'm not alone in dealing with this!! I had got to the point of taking it a little personally by the end of hus swimming class today as ridiculous as that sounds!!

Hopefully my new calm encouraging un-rattleable persona will herald the return of my lovely little boy!! Or at least someone I'm prepared to share a home with!!!