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naughty at school!

(24 Posts)
primaryschooldropout Tue 14-Dec-10 09:00:29

ds has recently been quite naughty at school. Can't sit still, not doing as he is told and goes into total meltdown when he doesn't get his own way.

At parent teacher consultation nothing was mentioned. hmm this is what I am most annoyed about.

Had a meeting this week with headmaster and he says it is not "normal 4 year old behaviour". Am seeing a behavioural therapist at school in January.

Not sure if this is the right enviroment for ds but as I have to pay a terms fees in advance and give a terms notice how long should i give it to see an improvement? I thought I would take him out of this school and get a tutor for a while.

Is this feasible or do I not have a clue? sad

southeastastra Tue 14-Dec-10 09:11:15

grr for you

wtf is 'normal' i wonder

primaryschooldropout Tue 14-Dec-10 09:12:42

I have not slept properly and its so upsetting.

southeastastra Tue 14-Dec-10 15:11:00

bumping for you

MadameSin Tue 14-Dec-10 15:49:28

How was your ds in nursery? Did they ever have 'concerns'? Is your ds happy at his school? If so, I would avoid taking him out as it would impact his social development and take him away from his friends. I'm assuming as it's a private school, you are paying for the observation. Why not wait until he is seen and get some advice either way from the specialist. Did the HT say what he thought your ds's problems were specifically?

primaryschooldropout Tue 14-Dec-10 16:04:29

He was fine at his nursery then went to preschool which is attached to his school. He had a few episodes of tantrums and he was difficult sometimes if he didn't get his own way (this was at home). He has made such improvements and has a good understanding what is expected of him.

He does long days and is the youngest in his class. Most are five before xmas.

They basically said he goes from been ok to total meltdown as if it is the end of the world. He also gets upset if he has to finish something he is enjoying. They said he has a problem socialising, though he has been to a party this week and played with all his classmates very happily.

the outside observation is something the school organised. I had no idea.

primaryschooldropout Tue 14-Dec-10 16:06:29

He also loves going to school and doesn't want to come home. However he is completely exhausted at the end of the day.

kipper31 Sun 19-Dec-10 08:18:25

As a primary school teacher myself I find it quite shocking that this was not discussed at your parent consultation by your child's class teacher. I personally find it odd that it was the headteacher who first approached you and that they did not request your permission for the outside observation! Some children do go through 'stages' and it is all about working with the parents, as a teacher. It is encouraging that your child does want to go to school and I would say that removing him from the situation will only cause problems later and you will still be none the wiser as to what the problem is. Children's interaction with peers is always interesting, sometimes when they appear to be playing happily with peers they are actually 'watching' and not fully interacting. I would definately go back to the school and request some time with the teacher to discuss what is happening on a day to day basis. It could be that your child is just tired or it maybe that they feel he needs extra support, either way you will need to work together to help him cope better. Hope that you get some answers soon.

primaryschooldropout Sun 19-Dec-10 09:23:03

Thanks Kipper.

I had a meeting with the head and teacher. She was surprisingly quiet and let him do all the talking. She was quite defensive when I asked her why she didn't mention anything in the parent/teacher consultation.

The outside observer is a behaviour support person who is part of an organisation which our school is a member of. They go into schools and observe all classes.

Its interesting that particular day ds was very difficult. We went to his gym class and hhis behaviour was dreadful. I have always known that when he is tired he gets like this.

cornyPrawnsdefrostJasonDonovan Sun 19-Dec-10 09:25:40

how dare they arrange that observation without liaising with you. Who is this behaviour support person anyway? What are their qualifications?

primaryschooldropout Sun 19-Dec-10 09:30:44

Corny, I don't know what their qualifications are. I rang their office and left a message and didn't get a reply.

I have a meeting next term.

cornyPrawnsdefrostJasonDonovan Sun 19-Dec-10 09:34:16

I would not be happy at all with their approach. It seems very strange to do this without asking for your input.

seeker Sun 19-Dec-10 09:39:47

I would refuse the observation until I knew the purpose of it, the qualifications of the person doing the observing and the standing of the organization they come from.

I would tell the school this, and request the information in writing, giving them a deadline to reply.

And if you do take him out of school, you don't need a tutor - he's 4.

sleighBELLasringing Sun 19-Dec-10 09:43:27

I know that should have asked your permission re getting the behaviour support person in - that was very wrong of them, but can I just say it isn't always a bad thing having a "neutral person" observing.

DS2 had a fantastic relationship at Nursery with his peers and teachers - they absolutely adored him, could not praise him enough to me. He went downhill at school. Yr1 was just awful and every day when they opened the door when the bell went I was constantly called across and they would tell me he had fidgetted in class, done this or had done that.

My friend works for the LEA and she suggested that when we had our meeting with the Head that we asked for someone to go in, which we did.

Behaviour improved and he has done ok until now - he is in Yr6.

It got the to the point where the Head was ringing us at home saying xyz. We have had another meeting with her and his teacher and they suggested this time that someone go in which they have. Unfortunately because of the snow, our meeting with the behaviour person was cancelled and we are waiting for another date, however he sent his report to us through the post. He suggests lots of things that will help DS and I am looking forward to putting his suggestions into practice.

cornyPrawnsdefrostJasonDonovan Sun 19-Dec-10 09:47:46

but this behaviour person could be anyone - may not have any relevant qualifications or may be fantastic - the OP doesn't know. The Head is now acting on their advice.

seeker Sun 19-Dec-10 09:49:52

No, not a bad thing at all - in fact a really good idea to get someone in. But the OP needs to know exactly who, when and why.

howtoapproach Sun 19-Dec-10 09:51:58

Hello - I am astounded by this too. My 5 yr old also has problems sitting still and gets frustrated v easily. Had a total meltdown outside school gates this week as she dropped her apple. I don't think this is particularly unusual behaviour for a 4 yr old - but I'm no behavioural therapist.

I would reserve my own judgment - see the behavioural therapist and ask them at school how you can work together to improve the situation.

Take advice from friends and family - do they think his behaviour is unusual?

It is still very early days and he may just be settling in.

primaryschooldropout Sun 19-Dec-10 18:53:10

Thankyou for all the replies. This whole school experience is new to me and he is my PFB. grin

I have been a nanny for 25 years and seen all sorts of personalities in children so just thought nothing of it and it was him settling into his routine (which if you saw the timetable is quite intense for a 4 year old). He is fairly well behaved at home and in public and we have seen a vast improvement since last year.

It has put a bit of a dampener on xmas though as I am dreading going back to school.

cluttermountain Sun 19-Dec-10 20:44:51

I have a 5year old in year 1. He goes to our local primary. He has always been described as 'lively' and 'exuberant'. In nursery and reception this was tolerated. Err not so in year 1. He is now being 'argumentative' and 'defensive'. Dread the school pickup. This school however is not private and according to ofsted we are in a deprived area. They are used to all manner of behaviours and although I cringe when I see the teacher I know they will work with me and my son and I would be horrified and furious if they carried out any
form of assessment without me knowing about it. I know I am not being very helpful to you, but I do wonder if fee paying schools have a different level of tolerance on what is or is not acceptable behaviour.

howtoapproach Sun 19-Dec-10 21:14:08

Do you know i felt like this after parents' evening at half term. I thought about it a lot. And although I always knew my dc would have trouble sitting still, I didn't think she was very different from her peers. In fact I know she isn't. She's actually very bright, lively and gets bored quickly.

If you have been a nanny for 25 years I think you should trust your judgement.

Go along with their recommendations to see what they have to say. And then decide what's best for your son.

It doesn't sound like anybody who is qualified to assess your son has assessed your son.

I think one of the major problems my DD had was that the teacher took a dislike to her because she was loud and lively. She was then unrewarded for her efforts and uninvolved. I saw a tick chart on the wall where my dd had none and most of the other dcs had 25. I asked my DD what do you get ticks for? She said some people get them for tidying up and some for being kind. But Miss xx never gives me any even if I've tidied up. She always forgets about me.

Things changed radically after half term. I told my dd not to play boisterous games inside. She stopped. I then kept asking - where was the promised reading book - they are supposed to change them every 3 days but they weren't doing this. Why is her work book empty? Oh it's because of the Nativity - we haven't done any structured activities.

From the sounds of it you may have a similar problem to me. It may not necessarily be a problem with your son but a problem with the teacher.

I feel extremely angry now that we were made to feel that we were bad parents when in actual fact my dd was just wanting somebody/anybody to be kind to her and take a blind bit of notice of her.

They hadn't even noticed she could read. She was reading books with me of 20 words + before they issued her with a 3 word reading book.

This is supposed to be a good ofsted school with a huge waiting list.

IME - start standing up for him and don't take any c**p.

wannabeglam Sun 19-Dec-10 21:18:00

Am I right this is a private school? Are there other schools around he could go to? I would start looking. I think their handling of the situation is very bizarre. I can't see the point of paying fees and getting this poor handling of the situation.

Of course they are going to be worried that other parents will start complaining, or maybe pull children from the school if his behaviour is really bad. But it's not a good sign of the school if the teacher says nothing to you and then you're called in by the Head. I would be asking the Head what he's going to do about the teacher. A good school has a good Head. You will need to think if your school has a good Head.

I've gone down the private route. Our head would offer parents of a disruptive child support. We had a child in the school who was unruly. One of the parents had a big go at this child's mother. The one who had a go was asked to leave and remove her child! He then wrote to everyone saying he expected good behaviour from parents as well as children. Pastoral care is very important. Fee paying schools have the resources to offer this. Not all fee paying schools are good schools.

seeker Sun 19-Dec-10 22:00:14

Move him. An "intense" timetable for a 4 year old is just wrong.

primaryschooldropout Mon 20-Dec-10 10:11:30

The thing is seeker I think it is intense but it may be normal for a private school.

The reception class were involved in two xmas plays which I thought was a bit much. One with the nursery class would have been enough.

I may pm you later the timetable and see what you think.

seeker Mon 20-Dec-10 12:30:34

But even if it is the norm, if it doesn't suit your child then he shouldn't be there!

But I'm biassed - a school day for a 4 year old that consists of more than stories, a bit of colouring, cutting and sticking, some playing in mud puddles, charging madly round a field and a little light sand castle building is too intense as far as I am concerned!

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