Calling All Softie/ Toy Makers ...

[Tillyboo]

Today I've had a meeting with Trading Standards to discuss safety issues when selling my creations and just wondered if anyone else has been down this route ?

I've seen lots of similar things to mine that have no CE marking or testing done so I was questioning whether I'd opened a can of worms and making life difficult (and potentially expensive) for myself by involving TS ?

Well, after the meeting I contacted a testing house and had a long chat with a lovely lady.

The upshot is I won't be making any more Softies to sell as the testing route is just not viable for small 'cottage industries' like me. They certainly don't do small businesses any favours but you can't take risks with toys.

The EN71 regulations are really stringent - lots of different parts involved

• Mechanical/ physical testing £62
• Flammability £45
• Toxicity £29.50
• Dyes test £55 (per bloody fabric)
• Consistency testing
• Environmental £45

Any hand stitching will need to sustain a pull of 20 lbs too.

All this per Design and sometimes you have to double the 'part £' depending on how many fabrics and threads you use , Aghh !!!!!!

I've been sat here feeling really down now and thinking of what my next step is.
I've wanted to make Non-toy related items for a little while but now I've been sort of forced into it.

Maybe I was daft doing things by the book but in this blame & compensation culture we seem to be living in, I thought I was doing the right thing.

TS told me that they pop up all the place checking out goods and it would have been just my luck to get caught at a craft fair or suchlike.

Anyone got any thoughts ? Do you get your stuff tested or not bother ?

I'm off to have a hunk of Green & Blacks now, that'll make me feel better

[Tillyboo]

Thank-you RR !

I've been thinking that I might develop the Huggly design into a doorstop. I think that might work ?
Also, the Bunnies .....

My brain is working overtime at the moment, I'd better get a pen and pad.

I could swing it and carry on without the testing etc. but I just couldn't risk it, especially now TS have me on file.

Ho Hum !

[JingleyJen]

does that mean all the little knitted scarecrows that the WI did for our church fete were sold illegally?

[lucykate]

tilly, lots of seller don't go down the testing route for these reasons. there are ways around it though, even just stating 'not for under 36 months' helps get around a lot of the rules, also, by not using the word 'toy' to define what you make.

soft toy gives the impression that it is to be played with, whereas words like, plush, softie, soft sculpture etc describe more a decorative object. or just being straight and blunt with buyers and labeling it as 'not a toy', then it's plain and simple for all to see. if there was ever any come back, the maker cannot be blamed as it was clearly labeled.

don't forget, if you are using shop bought materials, ie, thread, fabric, stuffing etc, many of those items will have already been through the tests you have listed, before being placed on the market themselves.

when i worked for coats crafts uk, their biggest products are needlecraft kits, some aimed at children, i know because i designed a range of 6 cross stitch kits aimed at teaching kids to stitch, none of which went through any testing, and bear in mind, these kits contained a needle. all it said on the was 'not for use under 36 months, needs adult supervision'.

in addition to cross stitch, i also designed 3 rag doll kits and 3 felt toy kits, again all of which just have the same wording on the back.

don't take what you've found out to heart, maybe just re-think the wording on your product descriptions on etsy. you could also think about adapting the design and weighting it by filling with rice as opposed to polyfil, could become a hugglie doorstop then instead if you're still worried about selling them as they are.

hope that helps

[lucykate]

see, tilly- doorstop!, great minds think alike

jj - no, they're not illegal, just make sure there is an age warning on anything you make/sell

[JingleyJen]

I was thinking of making some little teddybears made out of groovy donated fabric cuttings from local Curtain shop to sell for local playgroup - if it is in the shape of a teddy or rabbit is there any chance that it isn't going to be seen as a toy? IYKWIM?

[Tillyboo]

LK - I was hoping you'd offer a silver lining with your background.

I did question the 'This is not a toy, decorative item only' option but neither TS or testing was having it.

They've both really put the jitters on me now.

Anyway, I'm halfway through making a doorstop - as they say, 'If you fall off, get straight back on again' !

If it's a success I'll post, if not it's going in the bin ..

[lucykate]

just label it as not for under 36 months, ask the shop involved too what they think, they should have some experience in product safety

think of it this way, as a parent, if you copied a pattern out a book, or magazine and made your child something, you're not going to send it off for testing are you. there has to be some way around it or the whole craft book, magazine, and kit industry, and etsy for that matter wouldn't exist.

tilly, have you had a search in the discussion forums of etsy to see what other makers have done to tackle this? (although i know the rules are different in america)

[lucykate]

i can see where ts are coming from on this, but if they are to start turing their nose up at items being described as a decorative object, then you are talking about the whole 'art/craft' industry coming under scrutiny.

dh will have to have all his paintings tested incase a child (or adult for that matter ) licks one

another place to look into is the craftster website, there is bound to be some discussion in the forums there on ts

personally, i haven't checked into this a great deal, but had been giving product descriptions of my own stuff a lot of thought.

now, must get dc's fed, they are chewing my toes off

[Tillyboo]

LK, no, I haven't searched on Etsy yet but will do.

Thanks for your help. I know what you say makes sense, especially if you make your own children things from patterns AND I know there have to be rules but I wasn't expecting all this.

I thought they'd say 'Yep, they look well made and safe' just be careful about this and that etc ..

Last week I sold one of my bunnies to a lady who used to be a toy buyer for M&S and when I mentioned about the safety thing she said she hated her job - the safety rules were such a headache and she wished me luck !

[Fubsy]

You know, if everybody followed TS rules to the letter, there would be no school cake stalls, Xmas fairs, fetes etc.

Im not sure there isnt a rule somewhere that says if you make a cake to sell, it must be made in an Environmental Health checked kitchen - these rules are being broken all the time.

Whilst I wouldnt want to buy a cake baked in a kitchen where the cat licked the cake mix, and I wouldnt want to buy a toy with eyes on spikes (and in the 70s they had scares about toys like that every Xmas) - sometimes I like to take a little risk!

Tilly, I hope this doesnt affect you selling stuff on Etsy - your (not toys) are really cute.

[Nbg]

Oh I feel a bit better now for reading everyones replies.

I was thinking like fubsy. If everyone tested their stuff, no one would have fairs anymore.

I know the things I am making for the fair in April, I will definately state an age on them.

[Gingermonkey]

TB, don't you dare stop making your things, they are too lovely - re-label them if you feel it's necessary (they'd make great 'cushions'), but I think all of us that make and sell softies are in the same position. My favorite toy as a child was a bear made from an old war time utility blanket that my dad bought me from a jumble sale, and I've had him 30 some years (don't know how old he was when he came to the sale), he is still going strong, a bit threadbare and a bit scruffy after going to bed with me every night, being washed in the bath with me on occasions, going everywhere I went and then adopted by DD. I don't have any other toys from when I was little, and I am positive he would have failed any TS testing but he's living proof that handmade doesn't mean dangerous (his button eyes fell off years ago - and I've lived to tell the tale )
It's a sad testement to the times we live in that everything is expected to be put through ridiculous tests in order to see how safe they are. Obviously us parents don't have common sense any more, do we?

I think selling on somewhere like etsy you are pretty safe, it's when you venture into shops that you may have problems. After all, etsy is specifically for hand made things, so you realise what you are getting is not mass produced by children in China, and you may well lose a button once in a while (saying that, I had a toy by a well known company that rhymes with smellyfat where one of the 'safety' eyes fell out, and the stitching came undone down one side and the stuffing came out...)

[lucykate]

gm, my next door neighbour picked up a toy in a shop for a closer look, made by the same company, who rhymes with smellyfat , something dug in her hand and drew blood, it was a rusty nail

[Gingermonkey]

LK,!!! Seems to be a running theme there then

[lucykate]

i've posted the question here on the other place i've been blogging.

everyone there makes softies so hopefully may comment with some of their own experiences/advice

[Tillyboo]

I love that ... Smellyfat !
Blimey, you'd expect 'THAT' company to be extra careful wouldn't you ?

I do feel much better now, thank-you all.
The more the TS lady was telling me the more I was thinking 'What about craft shops, school fairs etc. ?'

Back to my new door stop now ...

[lucykate]

dh is home now and i mentioned it to him, and he just looked like this -



he says that surely if you are making one-of-a-kinds in an art doll sense, then the item comes under a 'selling of artworks' banner and not manufacturing, therefore not governed by trading standards.

not sure if you were producing on mass, wholesale, if it would still come under the same banner though. and, i think i've mentioned this before, anyone looking to supply a shop, i would ask the shop about it, throw the responsibility over to them, they should, in theory, know all about health & safety issues.

strangely enough, all the so called 'business' books and leaflets i have, just skirt round this issue by saying 'refer to your local trading standards agency', great help!

[Tillyboo]

LK - I agree. No-one seems to want to be definite about this, apart from the Testing company. They were VERY SPECIFIC but then they generally deal with big manufacturers.

I don't supply wholesale or mass produce but want to have my own website, I also got accepted onto Notonthehighstreet just before Xmas but wanted to be sure I was doing things properly before I embarked on such a public platform.

Ive been working on a door stop tonight and have a few other designs in mind. If friends or family want me to make a bunny etc. I'll be happy to do it but I don't think I'll advertise the fact.

I'm a bit too nervous now, maybe TS are watching me ...

[Nbg]

Tilly, why dont you ask Notonthehighstreet and see what they have to say about it?
It seems such a shame that you wont be making them anymore.

I agree with what LK's dh says. If your making lots of hugglys and providing them to an actual store then thats when I would think you'd need to get them tested.

[Tillyboo]

Yes, I think I may just ask NOTHS but I suspect they'll say it's up to individuals i.e. they themselves will hold no responsibilities.

Worth an email though, thanks !

I've almost finished my doorstop but run out of rice, Agh !

[Tillyboo]

Hi All, Just an update on this sticky subject if anyone is interested. I am soooo confuddled about all this but I promise I'll do my best to find some answers.

Please, please don't think I am scare mongering, this is a subject that has seriously worried me, so for those of you in the same boat and worried too, please read on ...

I have been talking to someone and what she told me was very interesting. I stress that this is just one persons experience.

This lady makes handcrafted teddies which she sells in a local shop. The shop got inspected by Trading Standards and her teddies were investigated because they didn't have the CE mark. Anyway, the upshot is that it inspired her to look into the safety regulations.

Apparantly,
'If the toy has been manufactured in accordance with the toys safety standards (EN71) and the standards cover all aspects relating to the toy, then it can be self-certified'

I don't know how you go about self certifying as yet but I'm going to recontact TS to find out.
You have to be very dilligent about keeping records e.g. where fabrics & fillings come from etc.
She suggested a home flammability test (with matches/ lighter) to see how combustible the materials are that you are using.You cannot assume that the fabrics have been tested unless they specifically say so.

So, a silver lining afterall.

I know all this sounds a pain in the bum but at the end of the day, any comeback is on us.
What scared me was reading on a product safety and CE Marking website that ....

'The penalties for not correctly CE marking a product, falsely CE marking a product or failing to CE mark a product for which it is required are generally a maximum of 3 months in jail and a £5000 fine'

GULP !

I don't consider anything I make to pose a risk but that's not the point, it seems TS can pop up anywhere and inspect.
LK - Your link to the Needle.org site and comments left on your post re this subject were interesting, thanks !

[lucykate]

i suppose it really depends on who/where you see your market as being. there are two routes, one being as a functional toy, alongside products from people like jellycat or moulin roty (you most probably would need to test all your designs and have a ce mark etc in order to compete) and sold through gift shops/craft fairs, the other, as a decorative object/soft sculpture, in which case, it shouldn't be treated any different as any other 'ornament', whether it's made out of glass, clay, wood or fabric, more suited to be sold in an 'exhibition' environment, craft galleries, etc. maybe these two links explain better -

handmade cuddle cloths, there's a big section on this site on product safety, i know they're not softies, but they are hand felted and embroidered

soft sculpture

both made from fabric, embroidery etc, but both for totally different markets

i guess you need to decide which way to go with your hugglies and take it from there, hth

[Tillyboo]

Thanks LK - I'll have a good read. Sodding internet connection here has only just come back !