12 week scan, something might be wrong

[needsanswers]

hi im 12+2 weeks preg with my 2nd child, i have endomentriosis and had two miscarriges before i have my daughter, including 1 that the baby had died at 7weeks but didnt bleed till 11weeks so had a D'n'C the following day. i was then lucky enough to have my amazing daughter who is now 3.
I am currently preg with my 2nd child due early decemeber, i has my 12week scan yesterday which showed that the skin behind babys neck (where they test for downs etc) is 3.1mm and anything below 2.5mm is considered normal, i now have to wait 10days for my blood results to come back.
I had finally gotten over the scary 12weeks of miscarrige now i have this to deal with, i am terrified crying constantly, my daughter keeps talking about the baby and how excited she is which upsets me more. does any1 have any advise or stories to share with me? anything would help...

[pooka]

No knowledge/ experience, but wanted to bump this for you, and to wish you all the best. I have read threads where the nuchal fold measurement has been higher with no subsequent issues. Maybe if you do a mumsnet advanced search you might find older threads.

Good luck. :)

[HauntedLittleLunatic]

Nuchal fold measurement is, to a certain extent subjective and that you have to be particularly skilled in carrying it out. It has to be done with the babies neck in a specific position otherwise it can lead to false results.

I know someone that had a high nuchal measurement, paid for a private nuchal test and all was fine.

[misty0]

Hello needsanswers,

I'm sure your feeling very worried, and i'm sorry to hear of your losses.

I'm not an expert at all - and can only speak from experience (of the worst happening sadly) and would like to try and reassure you. That measurement is only a little bit on the high side, and i wonder if any other markers for problems were pointed out at the scan? Nasal bone? Healthy heart? Size of baby?

10 days is a long time to wait for your bloods to come back tho'. Could you possibly have a private scan to get a clearer picture of what going on? As has been said above its highly likely a detailed scan would give the all clear.

Please keep us informed, we are thinking of you and sending good vibes xxxx

[nancydrewfoundaclue]

I am sorry you are going through this - again I am no expert and can only speak from experience.

Due to the loss of my DS2 from Downs I had a CVS in my following pregnancy. The CVS was carried out at 9 weeks and at that point the nuchal measurement was 3.4mm. Like you I was terrified and couldn't believe I could be struck by lightening twice. 5 days later when I got the all clear for the main trisomies I was naturally delighted.

The whole pregnancy was blighted by worry - we had been warned that a high NT could be indicative of a heart condition and I received a number of specialised scans all of which were reassuring.

I now have a beautifu,l healthy 13 week old DD.

I wish you all the best.

[needsanswers]

thankyou so much for all your replies..
misty0 i have read through most of the threads and remember your story, i am so sorry from the bottom of my heart for what u had to go through, u seem like such a strong lady, i dont know if i would be able to cope as well as u..
The lady who done my scan was a little on the rude side, i think because me and my partner were at the scan already having a 3year old daughter and we are on the young side as we are only 23, sadly because we are young people always automatically come to the conclusion that we would be bad parents, but the truth is, my partner and i have been togeather over 5years, he has a fulltime job and im a stay at home mum that has a night job once my partner gets home, we are good parents my 3year old can already read and recognise certain words etc and we would do anything for her.
sorry to get side tracked just frustrates me.. the lady who done the scan did not mention anything about a nasal bone, all she said was other then those measurements everything else was normal.. 10days is a long time to get scan results, im thinking maybe because we had a horrible earthquake here in christchurch a few months back that alot of our building are damaged so resources are limited? im not sure i got told we would hear back sooner if the results are on the bad side.. going to be a very long week and a half.....

[needsanswers]

nancydrew congratulations on the birth of you baby!! im so happy it worked out for u in the end, im sorry about your previous pregnancy. being in New Zealand i wont be offered a CVS i will be offered an amnio if the blood test isnt good new, the risks of miscarriage after an amnio can be quite high even tho i would get the procedure done i will still be very afraid of doing it, then miscarrying then finding out a week or so later that the result was clear.. i think even if my blood tests results are fine i will be very afraid untill i have my 19week scan were they will be focusing on babys heart, the sad thing is if i am lucky enough that everything is fine, i would of spent a majority of my pregnancy feeling scared and afraid, not excited and happy like i was with my daughter. the waiting game is the worst. thank you for your story, u gave me some hope :)

[nancydrewfoundaclue]

So are you now waiting ten days for the blood test results? After which you will then have to wait for an amnio if that is what you want? That does sound a dreadfully long wait.

I don't know what the healthcare system is like in NZ but can you get a specialist scan done privately. I know at my UK hospital anything over 2.5mm and the bloods become somewhat irrelevant - you will then be referred for a CVS/amnio (if that is what you want) regardless of what the bloods say.

Is there no option for a CVS at all? It is a very personal decision but if there was a problem and you were minded to end your pregnancy then most people feel the earlier it is done the better (sorry to bring this up if it is not something you'd even consider).

I know there is a lot to take in at the moment and of course everything might be fine. As others have said your sonographer may have measured incorrectly which does happen alll to frequently and as in my experience even if teh measurement is correct there may still be a positive outcome.

[DuelingFanjo]

was this done on the NHS at your 12 week scan?
I know were I am (wales) the Nuchal scan isn't done on the NHS but my SIL was given a nuchal fold measument by a sonographer who wasn't trained to do a full Nuchal scan and her fold was on the large side. She ended uo having it done properly and the measurement was much smaller. Personally I think it's completely wrong for the NHS to do this measurement if they haven't trained to do so. It causes lots of worry.

Incidentally, did you ask to have this measurement taken or did they just go ahead and do it as part of the 12 week scan?

[DuelingFanjo]

oh, sorry I see you are in NZ?

[misty0]

needsanswers - how sad that you were treated in an off hand way at your scan, and felt judged. Unforgivable. Age is no indicator of a persons sense of responsibility in my opinion. I know some 40 year olds who shouldnt be entrusted with bringing up a child, and some 18 year olds (my own included) who have wise, wise heads on their shoulders. By the time i was 28 i had 3 daughters, and have never regretted spending my 20's up to my neck in nappies, lol. It sounds like you get alot of joy from your parenting. Well done

Its hard to advise you on what to do/who to ask as our NHS system probably runs differently to yous. (and we havnt suffered an earth quake) but ... with a view to CVS, which as you know is an invasive but 100% acurate test, you would be need to have that test before you are 14 weeks pg. Here, most doctors wont perform the test after that. If you decide against/miss that deadline, you then have to wait till .... correct me if i'm, wrong someone ... 16 weeks for an amnio test.

My point is that you may want to speak to someone - GP, midwife - about speeding things up alittle for you so that you have a little breathing spact to think about the blood results if they are not good. Or get another scan soon. I personaly wanted a private (detailed) scan b4 i went ahead with invasive testing. I cut it very fine time wise with my CVS at 13 and a half weeks.

I'm still sure, BTW, that everything will be just fine. But theres nothing worse than having doubts and not knowing for sure is there? Once all this is sorted out you can relax and enjoy your pregnacy xx

[nancydrewfoundaclue]

misty please don't think I am picking holes but just to clarify I have had a CVS at 21 weeks. As far as I am aware there is no cut off for when it can be done but once it becomes possible to do an amnio that is odten considered to be preferrable due to it being slightly less risky.

[drivingmisscrazy]

it does seem very unfair that you have to wait so long - we went through something similar a couple of weeks back (you've probably seen my thread), but we did at least get the bloods the same day, and were able to have the cvs straightaway as well. Even so, three and half days seemed like eternity. Our nuchal fold was 2.77 at 12+3, plus very high hcg and background risk from age. But you are young which is (despite the sonographer's terrible attitude) a real point in your favour. I really hope that it turns out to be a false reading - you've already been through so much.

[misty0]

Sorry! i thought you'd just had the ultrasound scan, and blood tests. Must have read you wrong xxxx

[needsanswers]

wow i am overwhelmed at all the responses i have gotten,
nancydrew yes i have to wait the 10days apparently the blood test will give me the percentage of the chances of baby having down syndrome etc so until iv received the results so no1 has really given me any more info other then, if results arnt good, will be offered amnio, results can take up to 3weeks max, if bloods are okish i will wait untill 19week scan so they can look at babys heart, as far as going private im not even sure where to began.. i no some private hospitals have been closed due to them not being safe after the quake. and just so happens we are in the middle of a 3day weekend due to public holiday so nothing is open for me to ring until Tuesday,as far as cvs no1 has even mentioned it to me as a possibilities i have been getting most of my info off here and through Google searches.
DuelingFanjo yes i live in NZ :) from what i understand our 12week scan is basically to check baby has everything and to do the Nuchal scan, so im guessing they are all trained to do that measurement. unfortunately i do rather feel left in the dark when it comes to all the information, im very grateful you all are helping me to understand it all a little clearer.
misty thank you! i couldn't be happier as my decision to be a young parent, to tell u the truth i couldn't imagine life being any other way. again as far as CVS is concerned i really dont know much about either procedures other then what i have read on the internet, all i know is that i will be offered one. i am thinking on Tuesday it would be best to make an appointment with my doctor to see if she can give me anymore info on whats going on and what will happen.
yes i only have had the scan and blood tests :)
i think the hardest thing for me at the moment is the uncertainty of what is happening, my daughter likes to mention 20times a day that mum has a baby in her tummy and she cant wait to play with it etc, i used to really love how excited she was now i just kind of feel numb about it all. sounds silly but i feel baby being fine is to good to be true, like wishful thinking or something, hard to explain.
drivingmisscrazy you are right the waiting is the hardest thing and the fact that im only at the begaining is the worst bit, after waiting for blood tests if they arnt very good, itll be a 2 to 3week wait for amnio results, if blood test results are good it'll be another 6week wait for my 19week scan for them to be able to tell me if babys heart etc is ok. i do remember reading your thread.. please refresh my memory how things turned out for you? i have read so much info my brain is a mess lol,

[drivingmisscrazy]

needsanswers - turned out fine :) none of the trisomies, still waiting for full cvs, but had no soft markers - heartbeat fine etc.

[toomanyopinions]

needeanswers- easier said than done but try not to worry. Some high NT's are high with no consequence. All the very best.

DuelingFanjo- the NT may not be universally offered on the NHS in Wales (don't know this for a fact- I'm in London but am assuming that you have this fact straight? NT is pretty universal now) ALL Sonographers recognise a large NT and even though their Department may not SCREEN the NT, a LARGE NT cannot be ignored...
The fact that the 'proper' measurement that your SIL had was smaller than the NHS one may be due to the fact that the NT was enlarged due to oedema which subsequently reduced... Happily your SIL's baby was fine, had the LO been born with DS however would your thought process be different right now in that perhaps the private scan was incorrect...? Ditto HauntedLittleLunatic...

[EggletinaClock]

needsanswers, I hope you're ok. The waiting is absolutely awful but one thing you learn from reading the stories here is that lots of people are told there might be something wrong and for most of them, thankfully there isn't. I hope that's the case for you too.
If you do have to have an amnio then although there are risks they are not very high (1%) and you have to decide whether you would rather know as much as they can tell you, or whether to just wait and see. It's a very personal decision and depends on how much worry each option would cause you, but there will be people here who have done both or neither and will be able to share their experiences.
x

[justmee]

i just want to let you know i know exactly how your feeling i pent days week on the sofa crying thinking to myself am i really such a bad person to be struck with so much bad luck i have had 3 miscarriages all bewtten 5-7 weeks..so when i got pregnant this time my 1st 3 months of any back pain freaking out knicker checking was every 5 minutes even had spotting and freaked out! ..so 12 week scan came and i got on that bed crying imagining the doctor to tell me he couldnt find a heart beat only to see my baby waving around doing topples sat there crying as i was soo happy i looked at doctor and noticed he looked conserned he then began to tell me that the babys neck looked larger than it should be after trying for ages and getting all sorts of numbers 1.4 2.7 3.5 3.8 even 4.8 he then wrote 3.8 and sent me for bloods they even messed them up and i had to wait again so my 1st lot come thought with low risk and i was so happy rang the doctor to check them and only to be told they had wrote down my nuchal wrong so the whole thing had to be sent away again i was devistated ..when they finally arrived they had gone from 1-5900( something) to 1.58 ! i was shocked how could it make that much of a difference ...was sent away for another scan and the docotr there tried and he got 3.4mm we left talked many tears and decided what will be will be they offered me a amnio at 16 weeks but i refused due to the mc rate espically mine he wouldnt even do a cvs on me so that put me off straight away i think its totally down to you and what you feel confotable with not what anyone else wants i do have days when i think i wish i could know can i cope but then a little something inside me tells me to carry on and be strong .. i had a scan at 17 weeks on heart ect and eveything looked good then again at 23 weeks also my triple test came back very low risk but of course il never know untill my little boys here if you ever need a chat im always here give yourself time and keep busy during this hard time i wish you all the best xx

[needsanswers]

driving so happy that it has all worked out for you! Congrats :)
toomanyopinions thank you im trying not to think about it until i get my blood test results back which does seem to get a little easier everyday still quite anxious tho.
EggletinaClock yes i completely agree with you, this website has helped me so much, the success stories make me feel more at ease.. And the stories that havn't turned out as well give me strength knowing how strong these women truley are.
justmee Wow you are such a strong women! i know exactly what you mean with the knicker checking lol due to having endomentriosis i get ALOT of cramping, at about 10weeks preg my cramping got so sever i was getting woken all night so midwife sent me for scan, the sonographer was a trainee and took so long to find heartbeat i nearly burst into tears! i dont know anything about the sonographer that did my 12week scan, just that she had been doing it a long time. so am guessing she would of got right measurements although that will be something to ask my doctor tomorrow.. it would of been such a sigh of relief when they said everything was looking good in your recent scans.. i just want my blood results back lol. i wish you all the very best with the best of your pregnancy.. will you be going for any more scans??

[mrsbigz]

hi there needsanswers i can see you've already had a lot or responses and support on here (i would expect nothing less from this lovely bunch of ladies) but i just wanted to pop on and offer my own support too. it sounds like you're being really brave and levelheaded about everything in what can only be described as 'waiting torment'. i had a 7.4mm nuchal measurement (1:5 risk of DS), but got the bloods back quickly as was considered very high risk because of that. i refused the cvs as at that point i wasn't sure....well about anything, but we did eventually have the amnio a couple of weeks later. we also had a heart scan at 16 weeks. unfortunately my story doesn't have a happy ending BUT there are LOTS of women on here who have had the same risk factors and got the all clear - so i've everything crossed that you are one of them!! You obviously know where we are, but if you ever need to chat / vent / shout / cry then please do - we can all relate to the extreme's in emotions that you're going through.
sending you much love xxxxxxx

[needsanswers]

hi there mrsbigs thankyou so much for your support, had a dreadful day yesterday... rand my doctors about 10am hoping for some reason they had gotten my bloods back early, i tell the receptionist i had some blood tests done on thursday and was wondering if they were back yet.. she said yes they are ill put u through to a nurse and she can explain them to you.. phone rung and rung and then transfered me back to reception, they said nurse was bisy to give them my number and they would ring me back straight away..so i did.
several horrible hours later of my panicing why havnt they rand back, where the results bad and no one wants to tell me, r the results reakky bad and they are waiting for the doctor to ring instead.. after about 5hours i had worked my self up into a bit of a state, walking up and down the hallway, felt so sick to my stomach i threw up in the kitchen sink.... disgusting! why didnt you just ring back you may ask.. i dont like to be the type of person to annoy any1 so i waited and waited... 4pm i couldnt wait any longer rand them, go put through to nurse... nurse says results are your now 13weeks preg? im like umm yes... she then says was it planned? i again say yes thinking to myself wtf has that to do with it i just want to no my bloodresults. she then says is that all? i say im wanting my blood results please, she says o theyr not back we thought u wanted your scan results! god i was so incredibly angry.. i had a horrible day waiting to find out they misunderstood what results i wanted!!! its not like i wasnt at the scan to get the scan results!!!! so now the waiting game continues!!!! to top it all off took car for warrent today and it need over 2thousand dollars work done!! icing on the friggen cake!!!

[mrsbigz]

omg - i wish i was there to give you a big hug - what a HORRIBLE day, and how unbelievably stupid of them to mistake what you were ringing up about - especially after you TOLD them what you were ringing for.
sometimes these health professionals don't realise what an awful 'limbo' time it is while you're waiting for results.....it was certainly the worst part for me - i think when the results come back that you've been so worked up and worried beforehand that whatever they are, you just deal with it.
did they give you any idea how much longer they would take? and i DO hope they apologised profusely for their misunderstanding!!
sorry to hear about the car too - that's the last thing you need on top of everything else, hope you can get it fixed without costing the earth.
will be thinking about you - please keep us updated and remember we're all around if you need a chat xxxx

[misty0]

Ohhhhhh poor love! Christ i could punch these people on the nose sometimes! Really, its at times like that you really wonder if there is ANY time in life when you can rely on someone to do what they're paid to do properly dont you?

As well as what mrsB above says - have you a MW who could help chase this up for you? Im just the same as you not wanting to hastle people. Sadly these days it does seem tho to be those who shout loudest get most - so, can you get the courage up to ring twice a day? They may think oh get this woman her results so she'll stop ringing! I bet others are doing it. This IS the time in your life when it IS ok to be a pain in the butt. Keep asking them lovey xx

[needsanswers]

hi ladies,
After a very anxious 9days i finally have my results.. 1 in 680 of downs im considered as low risk so very very excited... cant even describe what im feeling at the moment, still a risk but so small..
Im not quite outta the woods yet my 19week scan will focus on babys heart so fingers crossed! but until then i finally get to enjoy my pregnancy!
Words cant describe how grateful i am to you incredible ladies! you helped me more then you will ever no!

[EggletinaClock]

That's great news! I'm so glad you've finally heard. Fingers crossed for your scan but I'm sure everything will be ok. Let us know how you get on.
x