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to think that belgian voluntary enthanasia is murder

(80 Posts)
ReallyTired Thu 03-Oct-13 09:29:53

When you have someone who is terminally ill and in extreme pain then I think there is a case for enthanasia. However I think there is a fine line between helping someone to have a dignified death and helping someone with possilby treatable depression to commit suicide.

This poor transexual was allowed enthanasia because of a botched sex change operation. I feel that he/she should have had treatment for depression/ councelling rather than being helped to commit suicide. I imagine that the fact that Nathan Verhelst was rejected by his parents for being born a girl had caused him untold pychological issues.

Prehaps Nathan Verhelst was poorly supported through his sex change operation and its tragic that he never found happiness. I hope that he rests in peace and I feel its sad that he was not helped to find peace in this world.

ReallyTired Thu 03-Oct-13 09:30:18


Feminine Thu 03-Oct-13 09:31:05

I agree with you.

Such a waste of life (in this case)

FreudiansSlipper Thu 03-Oct-13 09:33:55

do you not think he has been treated for depression. he may have been poorly supported but some people never move on from depression it is not always curable and the self loathing that he has felt since a child is something he felt he did not want to live with any more

why is physical pain a reason to have that choice given to you but psychological pain is not

SilverApples Thu 03-Oct-13 09:36:55

I think psychological pain is as real and debilitating as physical pain for some people, and that assisted suicide is preferable to a botched and agonising attempt by someone who made that choice.
Sometimes you have st step back and let people have the autonomy to say 'Enough'

Latara Thu 03-Oct-13 09:37:00

I agree a total waste of life.

Also i'm against euthanasia in principle because it's an 'easy' option - money should be spent on more carers, better psychological help for people and good end of life care.

mrsjay Thu 03-Oct-13 09:38:40

no I do not think it was murder i think it is tragic he felt he had to do this he was in agony and saw no way out sometimes people can not be cured, I also think people who are physically ill and do this must be in phsycological pain too and feel they can't go on,

Feminine Thu 03-Oct-13 09:39:30

I think that when you have a lot of life to live, its a massive shame. This man was still young.

I know a great deal about mental health issues... and still wish he could have been able to carry on.

FreudiansSlipper Thu 03-Oct-13 09:40:07

some people can have the best and all the psychological help there is and it is still not enough as they are very unwell

for most people thankfully that is not the case

expatinscotland Thu 03-Oct-13 09:40:47

It's his life, maybe death was peace to him. It's not for me to judge when an adult makes a decision about their body and life.

AngelsLieToKeepControl Thu 03-Oct-13 09:40:56

I don't think its murder.

I do think he would more than likely have committed suicide had this not been an option.

He clearly felt he was suffering a terminal condition, the doctors agreed. Having read a small amount about his life, and a shocking quote from his Mother today I can see why he chose this path tbh.

mrsjay Thu 03-Oct-13 09:43:51

I think what freudian just said is important to remember that not everybody with issues like this man will do this, they can carry on , It is so very sad that people feel they have to do this I am not against it and I am glad it is an option for people. human suffering can be unbearable physical or phsycological (sp),

HeadfirstForHalos Thu 03-Oct-13 09:47:43

Depression is a real illness with real suffering.

If every attempt at treating him had been tried and failed then no, I don't think it's murder. Why should mental health patients go on suffering while people with longterm physical pain have the option of euthanasia?

MorrisZapp Thu 03-Oct-13 09:49:55

Of course it isn't murder. Do you honestly think he was given no support or help for his issues?

Anybody who thinks that physical pain is valid but mental pain isn't, obviously has no personal experience of mental ill health or disability.

FrightRider Thu 03-Oct-13 09:51:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReallyTired Thu 03-Oct-13 09:54:00

I feel that enthanasia can be easier route for doctors and health care administrators than providing high quality pallitive care or pychological support.

44 years old seems so young for doctors to give up on treating someone for being suicidal.

NotYoMomma Thu 03-Oct-13 09:55:01

it isnt murder. would you rather he have took matters into his own hands? to have people find him totslly unprepared? or if he had decided to jump in front of a train

you wpuld be calling it tragic and sympathising

it is tragic and he could see no other way out so chose that path for himself

I hope he has peace

mrsjay Thu 03-Oct-13 09:57:35

we are really only going on news reports and It can seem he just decided out of the blue to go this I am sure his health carers did care and treat him ,

expatinscotland Thu 03-Oct-13 10:00:40

'44 years old seems so young for doctors to give up on treating someone for being suicidal.'

It's not for them to decide, his life is his. Give up? So instead he dies alone?

People should have complete autonomy over their bodies, including how they chose to end them and their lives.

FrightRider Thu 03-Oct-13 10:02:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrsjay Thu 03-Oct-13 10:03:28

People should have complete autonomy over their bodies, including how they chose to end them and their lives.

^ ^ that

why should doctors decide when the time is right this person decided enough and although it is tragic he had 44 years of pain and despair I think he made the right decision for him ,

LaurieFairyCake Thu 03-Oct-13 10:04:45

It's not murder as there would have to be intent on behalf of the state.

I think it's far more an indictment of how little help is offered for psychological pain - he got 6 months therapy - I think that's crap

Severe depression can be massively debilitating but there's no way every therapy/drug therapy was tried

It's cheaper for the state to allow to die than treat them - that is a very unpalatable truth

They have death vans going round at the request of the elderly - this makes me uncomfortable and I do not think we engage with death, debilitating illness properly

mrsjay Thu 03-Oct-13 10:05:29

if this person was a 44 year old transexual with motor neurone disease his decision would be accepted maybe not agreed with but accepted as he had no quality of life

FreckledLeopard Thu 03-Oct-13 10:06:22

If you don't believe in euthanasia, fine, don't choose it for yourself. But don't deny the right of someone else, in enormous physical or psychological pain, to choose it.

PresidentServalan Thu 03-Oct-13 10:06:58

If someone wants to die, for whatever reason, I think they should have the right to.

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