to think that the 11plus forum is the scariest forum in the world!

[stillenacht]

anyone agree??

[piscesmoon]

Scary in what way? I feel a bit sorry for the DCs who are drilled but I wouldn't call it scary. I'm just glad we are comprehensive in our area.

[stillenacht]

Just soooooo unbelievably full on about this grammar is better than this etc when there are just a fraction of a % of difference in grades between them (which of course vary year to year depending on cohort), why one has 'better' senior management than another, discussions about super selectives and out of area pupils etc etc...Prepping the kids as to what to write in essay questions - ie write this sentence it sounds really alliterative etc etc ...its a scary ol' place there!

[mumblechum]

I know what you mean. I only discovered it after ds had sat his 11 plus but lurked onit while we waited for the results. There were some seriously obsessed people on there.

Luckily ds got through but his friend didn't and his mum got a lot of helpful advice and support on the appeals procedure from someone who was on an appeals panel so knew their stuff.

[MollieO]

Have you encountered Tipsy yet? She is truly scary!

[stillenacht]

Oh God yes on the independent section! I know - v scary, full of knowledge!!! I am sure she is lovely though in RL.

[controlfreakythecontrolfreak]

tipsy isn't scary she's a grade A loon.

[stillenacht]

I just want to say what i really feel on there sometimes but I know I will get completely pasted!

[Vallhala]

I find it scary insofar as there was none of this coaching and prepping when I was an 11 year old. We merely all took the test in primary school, the staff had a good idea of who would pass for a grammar school and these parents viewed possible schools in anticipation of a successful result.

The harder part was not passing the 11+ but passing the selection interview, which in my case involved an interview between the Headmistress and I, then the Head and my mother, following which the Head interviewed us both together. We both also had to prove regular attendance at church as mine was a faith school. Regardless of this I wasn't coached as to what to say or how to behave. I was just expected to behave with manners and be myself.

The grammars available in my city were all pretty much as good as one another and it would normally be just a matter of personal preference as to which parents chose. The only problem with regard to choice for those of my age was that the following year these grammars would have to either move out of the city, turn comprehensive, close down when my year group reached 18 or become independent. This was as a result of a change in law by the Labour government of the time.

I feel that admission to grammar school was a lot easier in my day. My school was in a predominantly working class area where many parents didn't have the funds or education to coach their children so IME we gained our places on merit and not on our parents' ability to pay for coaching or to prep us at home. I feel sorry for todays grammar school applicants, especially the bright children who can't compete with those of richer, better educated parents. So yes, the forum is scary, but probably for good reason.

[Portofino]

I'm with you on this Vallhala. I took (and passed the 11+) but wasn't even aware of it! It was just another of those tests they did from time to time. God, in my primary class there were a few that passed but their parents preferred to send them to local Sec Mod instead of the Grammar School.

I have no idea about Belgian secondary education and how early I have to start panicking!

[Vallhala]

There was one lad in my class Portofino, probably one of the brightest, whose Dad chose to send him to the local comprehensive.
To this day I find it odd as his Dad was very strict and very hot on his boy working hard and doing well. Thats not to say he couldn't/wouldn't in the chosen school, although it all went very badly wrong and he ended up a criminal, but I still think that if I'd been his father I wouldn't have made the same choice.

Anyway, I digress...

[piscesmoon]

I always go on to point out that if they are suited to grammar school they just need a few practise papers so that they know what to expect. If they need 2 years of practise papers and a tutor I don't think that they are being done any favours. Passing the exam is the first step. They then have to keep up once they get there-that is when I really feel sorry for them, if they haven't the ability.

[nostrila]

The 11+ forum is very handy for some things. But if you think tipsey is scary, look out for magwitch

In general most folks are sensible on there and go down the familiarisation route rather than the intensive tuition path. However, there are some oddbods out there!

[bellissima]

What irritates me is that ( have been looking for info on both independent schools and grammars, given our area) whilst there is some useful stuff, there are some posters on there who leap in at every opportunity and question to say something about me me me and my wonderful children. Well I think they have already been identified!

Plus the 'my child has worked on 100 papers in the last week where can I get more?' and 'help, my child is only scoring 99.9% how do we improve?'...that just winds you up big time when you have a rather more normal child!

[MillyMollyMoo]

Just ignore the loons, I got some very good local advice from there which I really hadn't considered up until that point.
Was debating yesterday with a friend about tutoring, she isn't I am and tbh it's too sensitive a subject to have a real life conversation about so I was grateful for the forum, loons and all.

[WhatDidISayRoy]

this is so true OP. I went over there to have a nose, and couldn't believe my eyes at some of the parents practically dementing over getting their dc into a grammar.

I can understand that if your child was of an 11+ capability it is great to get them into a grammar school, but the complete obsessiveness is quite alarming.

I went to a grammar school, and tbh my dd who did not do it is doing better than I did at the local secondary school.

It really is not the be all and end all.

Those poor kids have been tutored to death, but if they really need years of tutoring before hand, surely they will struggle when and if they get through.

[fircone]

A lot of these people have spent gazillions on a house in a grammar school area. How could they countenance their child not getting in?

I would be interested to know what people do if their child lands up at the local secondary modern. Because that's what they are - secondary moderns. Not comprehensives. Do they move away? If you've spent £750K on a rabbit hutch in Bucks/Kent etc in the expectation that your child will pass the 11+ you possibly haven't got a ton of spare loot for private education.

[Pikelit]

The 11+ (much as I dislike selective education) did, back in ancient educational history, offer genuinely life-changing opportunities for bright, working class children. Both of my former FILs went through the grammar school system in Lancashire and Newcastle, respectively, and enjoyed very successful professional careers as a result. The current system, however, seems to offer middle class children the chance to succeed at the expense of bright but less advantaged children.

Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, while it is possible to cram the knowledge of how to DO an 11+ exam into the head of your child, getting them into grammar school is only the first hurdle. Keeping them there if they fail to make the grade longer-term could be a far greater challenge. How awful to be the child who hasn't met the expectations of those dementing parents!

[MillyMollyMoo]

We are I guess in that situation, didn't pay £750k but certainly over the odds for the size type of house we have because it's in a grammar school area and the truth is do you want your child to go to the secoundary modern where the top 20% have been creamed off to go to the grammar schools, probably not.
What if one child passes and one doesn't.
It is a headache.

[MollieO]

We live in catchment for a very good grammar in Bucks (although we actually live in a neighbouring county). It has excellent results but apparently lots of the children there are tutored and it is actively encouraged by the school. I suppose it is stil cheaper than private school but it does seem rather fake to me.

[MollieO]

Milly - if one fails and one passes, the one who fails goes to private school. I lived in Bucks growing up and I was 'threatened' with private school by my parents. Little did they realise that their threats actively encouraged me to try and fail my what was then 12+ (first year after they abolished the 11+). I equated private school with having my own pony!

[MillyMollyMoo]

Unfortunately Mollie they are already in private school at the moment so I was looking forward to the happy day when those bills stopped coming, difficult isn't it.
Plus the better private schools locally are filled with the children who never took the 11+ therefore never failed it.
Really I don't want to be paying £8,000 a year to be with the 11+ failures any more than you'd want them in the comp with the 11+ failures.

[WhatDidISayRoy]

what is wrong with being in the 11+ group with the failures milly? Maybe i have not grasped what you are saying.

My DD goes to a Secondary modern. The top 20% of this particular school is seperated (well it is all streamed) but this 20% are taught at a grammar level. They take all the GCSE's at the Higher level, (i.e no foundation) But i think that is great, because everyone is working at their ability.

I would think many schools do streaming don't they?

Many children come out of secondary modern/comp with equal results to those at the Grammars.

[MollieO]

If ds doesn't pass the 11+ he will go to the senior section of his current private school. There are a mix of 11+ failures and non-takers there but it will be far better than the state alternative unfortunately. Smaller classes and more opportunities. Ds's school is actively encouraging the more able pupils to consider senior school and that will push up the ability range too.